Proof That GM is losing customers

NY_Rebel · Feb 29, 2004

Hi guys, I'm living proof that GM is losing customers to Ford since they refuse to even consider bringing the F-body back. I have bought f-bodies since I first started driving. I currently own A '69 convertible, '85 Z28, and '93 Z28 and there have been many others that have come and gone.
I just went out and bought a new 40th GT Anniversary Edition. I still prefer the f-body over the mustang but since I can no longer buy a new f-body and the Corvette is not within my budget at the present I now ride the blue oval pony express.

GM Dude · Feb 29, 2004

stop your whining

new22003 · Feb 29, 2004

I honestly wish GM would get its act together. I dont hate GM and I hate to see another once great American company going down the tubes. They dont make a car I want/would own other than the Corvette. The small cars they have are bad jokes, the midsize sedans even worse. Cadillac has been doing some interesting stuff at least but it is a small bright spot in an otherwise pitch black GM future.

Z28x · Feb 29, 2004

NY_Rebel said:
Hi guys, I'm living proof that GM is losing customers to Ford since they refuse to even consider bringing the F-body back.

F-body fans have to wait until '07 for a new Camaro.

Why won't GM publicly say the Camaro is coming back? read here: http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=230757

Congrats on the new Stang

RodStang · Feb 29, 2004

Ford & GM have been losing to Toyota & Honda for 25 years now. Sales figures don't lie.

Enzora · Feb 29, 2004

Z28x, I sure hope you're right. I figured that's what GM would do, but the outright denial from Lutz was pretty disheartening.

Long live the American pony car.

Edit: :canflag:

NY_Rebel · Feb 29, 2004

Z28x said:
F-body fans have to wait until '07 for a new Camaro.

Why won't GM publicly say the Camaro is coming back? read here: http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=230757

Congrats on the new Stang

Thanks for the link. It is encouraging but I'm still skeptical, GM is notorius for blowing smoke. I understand about the "deal" they had, but as a former worker at a foundry that supplied grey-iron castings direct to GM assembly lines. I know they have no problem with ignoring deals and continuing as they see fit.

had65want05 · Feb 29, 2004

Strange mix of cars

Yes, Chevy is taking some strange turns indeed. Best bet right now would be a 1997 Corvette, I guess. Would get ya into a C5 for around $20k. Will be interesting to see how the new Camero turns out. Wonder why the SSR truck was produced before a rear wheel drive sports car? The Malibu is a blah car, and the Aveo or whatever it is, from Korea, is nothing to brag about. Maybe Chevy will get a hardtop version of the Solstice. Bring back the RWD Malibu, Monte Carlo and Caprice, with some classic style lines to them, and the people will buy again. GM has some of the best gas mileage V6 engines in the market place. Ford, to their credit, kept the Mustang and 'Vic RWD. I will consider a new 'Stang when it comes out. As far as new Camaro??? Will keep an eye on the spy photos and rumors to come. I do like the C5 'Vette. I wonder if the large discount currently on Mustang v6 will be as large for the v8 -GT 'Stangs before the release of the '05? Heck, I guess a v6 would be fun - maybe add a different muffler to get more tone out of her. What's up with this gas pedal on Fords and Chevys being so far down? You have to raise your foot several inchs higher to get to the brake --- not good ! I saw a way to customize this to bring the pedal up higher that was posted as an anwser to question I posted, but gosh, you should not have to alter a new car. - Loren

Ron Jeremy · Feb 29, 2004

Plymouth should bring back the Barracuda and Dodge should bring back the Challenger and the Charger. All these cars were BETTER than the Camaro and the Firebird cars.

shatner saves · Feb 29, 2004

Z28x said:
F-body fans have to wait until '07 for a new Camaro.

Why won't GM publicly say the Camaro is coming back? read here:

2 reasons: they might not want to announce before they have a concept out, and they might not actually be doing it. If they can't make a strong financial case for it, it won't get off the ground. Maybe this has happened already. Who knows.

If we don't see a concept car by detroit in 2005, I wouldn't hold my breath for an '07 camaro.

Z28x · Feb 29, 2004

had65want05 said:
The Malibu is a blah car, and the Aveo or whatever it is, from Korea, is nothing to brag about.

THe New Malibu is boring, but boring sells in that segment Malibu Retail sales are up like 50% vs. the old model

I got this from another site about the new Malibu:

Reported by a recent issue of a Union Mag, "Solidarity":

"According to consumer surveys by J.D. Power & Associates, the Malibu outranks the Camry on; mechanical quality, feature and accessory quality, and OVERALL Quality. The Camry does outpoint the Malibu on body and interior quality.
The car buyers surveyed by J.D.Power also say the Malibu is better on every quality measure than other comparable non-Union sedans, INCLUDING the Honda Accord and the Nissan Altima.(Rankings posted at www.jdpower.com )"

had65want05 · Feb 29, 2004

Charger ahead.

Ron Jeremy said:
Plymouth should bring back the Barracuda and Dodge should bring back the Challenger and the Charger. All these cars were BETTER than the Camaro and the Firebird cars.

The Charger is coming out in a year or two, the way I understand it. Will replace the Intrepid on the NASCAR track. Yeah, I know, the NASCAR cars are all the same. A new 'Cuda would be cool ! Loved the looks of those Dodge Challenger and AMC / AMX and Javalins. Favorite Camaro is still first design, and for 'Stangs, I'd say my favorites are the '67 - '70 and the '94-'98 years. This is not to say the current 'Stang is not a fine car. A great bargain and the style looks good in most ways. Still would not mind going back the more curved doors.
Loren

had65want05 · Feb 29, 2004

Mazda6

Z28x said:
THe New Malibu is boring, but boring sells in that segment Malibu Retail sales are up like 50% vs. the old model

I got this from another site about the new Malibu:

Reported by a recent issue of a Union Mag, "Solidarity":

"According to consumer surveys by J.D. Power & Associates, the Malibu outranks the Camry on; mechanical quality, feature and accessory quality, and OVERALL Quality. The Camry does outpoint the Malibu on body and interior quality.
The car buyers surveyed by J.D.Power also say the Malibu is better on every quality measure than other comparable non-Union sedans, INCLUDING the Honda Accord and the Nissan Altima.(Rankings posted at www.jdpower.com )"

The Mazda6 would actually offer a little more excitement. For a front wheel drive, it is rated FUN to drive. Yeah, too many people just don't care anymore about driving for fun - how sad..... I am driving a Miata and a Corolla. Even my Corolla from 1998, has more style to it than does the new Malibu. And the Malibu in 1968 was just awesome. How could they do this to a great name in auto history... and then there is the Impala.... oh my Loren

shatner saves · Mar 1, 2004

Z28x said:
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=230757

Just went thru this thread. I admire the amount of research the author has done. He must be really passionate about f-bodies.

The Quebec gov't/loan situation obviously goes back to the whole business case thing. You would have to sell a hell of a lot of Camaro's in the first year to justify paying off those loans early. It's questionable whether or not GM want's to dish out that kind of cash right now.

What if they called it something other than camaro?

spanky442 · Mar 1, 2004

They should bring back the F-body. GM built some of the best cars as far as performance and styling for many years. The late 70's and 80's ruined them. The big three have lost many sales to foriegn auto makers because lets face, better gas mileage, reliability and quality. That's why U.S. automakers have teamed up with foriegn automakers to improve their product. GM seems to be trying to make itself more like the Japanese. They offer only front wheel drive cars now. That have a similiar look and feel to imports. I think all of GM new cars are butt ugly, but they are trying to appeal to someone who is buying a Camry or Accord or Corrolla or Civic. That is where today's market is and GM is trying to get in there. I think Ford has improved greatly but they are still offering cars that may not be as practical in today's market. Its a good thing that they are keeping an all american image but it may hurt them in the end. IMHO, there is not a Ford, GM or Dodge that I would buy for daily commuting. I love my Mustangs and my other cars, but they are toys. I'll take a civic or corrolla over a focus or cavalair anyday. I would also take and accord or camry over a Taurus or Impala anyday.

351CJ · Mar 1, 2004

Unless GM can quadruple the F-Body sales volume, there is no way GM could justify bringing them back. The only way the Camaro & Firebird could return and be profitable for GM is if they were made on a platform that is shared with other vehicles.

Z28x · Mar 1, 2004

shatner saves said:
What if they called it something other than camaro?

I thought of that too, maybe they could call the V8 model just Z28 and Z28/SS, but what would you call the V6 model? From what I understand after CY 2005 the Camaro name can be used again.

spanky442 said:
GM seems to be trying to make itself more like the Japanese. They offer only front wheel drive cars now. That have a similiar look and feel to imports. I think all of GM new cars are butt ugly, but they are trying to appeal to someone who is buying a Camry or Accord or Corrolla or Civic. That is where today's market is and GM is trying to get in there. I think Ford has improved greatly but they are still offering cars that may not be as practical in today's market. Its a good thing that they are keeping an all american image but it may hurt them in the end.

GM has as many RWD cars Ford with a lot more on the way. The quality at Ford and GM are way up from the 80s/90s in many cases they are as good or better then imports now. The new Malibu has been rated by JD power to have better build quality than the Accord, and the old Malibu has better reliability that the Accord. The Caddy CTS beat out every car for best initial quality with the exception of 1 Lexus. As far as styling goes the new Ford 500 looks like a VW, Lincon LS and Pontiac GTO look like BMWs, I don't see anything American about that. The only cars I see coming from the big 3 with "American" styling are Trucks, Sports car, and Cadillac.

spanky442 · Mar 1, 2004

Well like I said, GM is trying to go after that market. As far as reliability and quality goes, I'll have to read up on that, but up until recently, the U.S. automakers were suffering with poor quality scores. As for Ford, they haven't really released anything yet. Well, I guess my point is that GM is losing customers in the performance area, but they are gaining in the practical car area were they are trying to compete with the Japs.

jacs · Mar 1, 2004

The f-body is prob gone for a long time. GM had to make an agreement that it would not open up a plant to make new f-body's before it closed the old one down. Look on the ls1/ls2 sites and you should find the post about this.

I love the ls1 fbody and had one. Now i'm considering buying either an fbody or a mustang. I always wanted a twin screw on my t/a but that isn't possible but a keene bell is very possible for a mustang

Mike98GT · Mar 1, 2004

Like I said in a post before, I was born and raised a GM nut, but then I drove a '98 Mustang. By GM!

Proof That GM is losing customers

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