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Ptfe

  • Thread starter Thread starter CarMichael Angelo
  • Start date Start date Sep 26, 2014
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CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
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Sep 26, 2014
#1
  • Sep 26, 2014
  • #1
Polytetrafluroethylene. That's what it's supposed to stand for at least.
Basically, it's some of the stuff you use everyday on almost every automotive application where you need to seal a leak.
Teflon tape. Stuff so easy to use, a moron could do it.

But we're not talkin about no stinkin' idiot tape.

It's the Teflon lined, stainless steel braided, high pressure hose I'm talking about instead. In which case, when referring to the four letter abbreviation it takes on a new meaning:

Prepare To F ucking Explode.

I bought 25' of that junk, along w/ (4) -6 90 degree ends, (3) -6 straight ends, and (1) -6 45 degree end. I intended to build my own PS hose from the pump, and two transmission lines from the cooler back to the hard lines that were cut at the front of the engine.

I got the -6 conversion fittings from MM to convert the PS pump, and rack over to -6 yesterday.
At 3:30, I started to assemble the line that comes from the pump . One stupid little 14" hose.

If you've never assembled PTFE hose before, it differs from standard braided hose in that there is a teflon liner in the center of the hose as opposed to a rubber core. The process involves cutting the end of the hose, sliding the socket over the hose, flaring the SS braid away from the teflon liner, sliding a brass ferrel over the teflon liner, inserting the hose end into the teflon liner, then screwing the end, and socket together.

Ohh,........one last step.

Spend the next several hours, trying to screw the hose end into the socket.

I used Summit branded stuff. This is probably one case where the "Made in China" on the bags the hose ends come in should have been a warning that this wasn't gonna end well.

They barely go together. When I say barely, I mean you will be doing your damndest just to get one thread to engage. In my case, the first hose end was cross threaded, and it promptly killed it.
Get out new hose end, and start over.
The second time, after looking at the orientation after the one thread engaged about a dozen times, I committed to trying to tighten the assembly, and it went together. Great........it only took about 45 minutes to put one hose end on, and it took two ends to accomplish that feat.
The other end of the hose was a 45. I spent 2 hours trying to get that bastard to screw together. No matter how much you trimmed the braid, or nibbled the teflon liner, you could not get the two pieces close enough to screw them together. I go inside, and Google PTFE hose assembly and watch two different You Tube vids to be sure that I'm not missing anything, and the guys on the vid both manage to assemble the hose end in under a couple of minutes. I go back down stairs and literally compress the two ends together w/ C clamps, and two different brake flare tools I have, and they still won't engage.
By now, it's 6PM. I'm eating steel, and spitting nails I'm so p issed. It was at this time I call Summit to tell them that their Chinese piece of s hit ends don't work.
I expected them to tell me that because I've ruined the one end, and cut the 25' line ( 70.00 for the hose) that the best I can hope for is a refund on the unopened, un assembled stuff.
Not the deal.
Dude says that if I'm not happy after 972 orders (yeah, I've bought alot of s hit from Summit) to send it all back. Even the cross threaded end, the 45 that has all kinds of nicks from being cranked into a vise, and the 25' hose that is now 23.5' long.

I'm less pis sed now, but I still have to find a way to get the hoses built that I need.

I call Oreillys (because it says on their door that they build hoses).
I ask the guy if he has -6 line, 45 degree -6 hose ends, and specify that one has to be straight, and one at 45 degrees. He tells me that he does, I ask how much will it be to build me one 15" long hose.
$38.00.
Ordinarily, I'd pass, but I'm still a little p issed.
I go there. I take the piece of junk braided hose with me as a reference

When I get there it turns out that the hoses ends are in fact JIC (aka 37 degree). Dude apologizes and tells me that Napa across the street has the correct hose ends and if I want to go there, and pay them for the ends, he'll assemble the hose for me.

Now I'm just defeated. I start to reason what the hell is the big rush that I need to spend probably close to 50 stinkin' dollars on one hose for a car that is months away from even needing this thing. I bail on the whole ordeal, and go back home.

When I get back home, it's close to 7PM. I go eat w/ my #2 son (Wifes out of town on business, and bringing #1 back from the AF base in Shreveport LA. so he can pick up the 86 hatchback that's been sitting in the driveway for a month now). The time spent eating has calmed me. Unfortunately, the calming effect only managed to bolster my resolve to make that hose go together.
I go back down there, and dick around for another hour trying to make the impossible possible. It is never gonna happen.
I decide that I'll bail on the 45, and attempt to put a straight end on there instead. I mock the hose up again to determine if it'll work.
It's waay too short. Matter of fact, with all of the trimming, and nibbling I've done trying to get the 45 to work, even if I would've got the end on there, the whole damnned thing is about 3/8" too short anyway.

How pissed would I be now if I would've paid 50 bucks for a hose that was 3/8" too short?

Besides the fact that the hose is too short now, the one hose end that is in there is in reality, non-reusable, because the ferrel crushes when it's tightened. So, I couldn't use it again for that reason.

But...........I do have this other ferrel from the sorry assed 45 that would never go together.

If I can just find where it landed after I smashed the hose end against my counter.
 
Last edited: Sep 26, 2014

jrichker

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#2
  • Sep 26, 2014
  • #2
In China, junk is a boat that you sail on. Maybe that ought to clue us in on something we're missing...
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Birmingham, al
Sep 26, 2014
#3
  • Sep 26, 2014
  • #3
jrichker said:
In China, junk is a boat that you sail on. Maybe that ought to clue us in on something we're missing...
Click to expand...
In the USA, Junk is the stuff that sailed on a boat from China.
 
Reactions: 90lxcoupe and jrichker

RacEoHolic330

I like to dress like a pretty girl
15 Year Member
Mar 4, 2003
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Sep 26, 2014
#4
  • Sep 26, 2014
  • #4
Man, that sucks Mike. My entire fuel system is PTFE. TechAFX lines with Fragola fittings. I didn't have a single issue with assembly or leaks from the lines themselves. Had a few leaks from not tightening fittings enough, but nothing a little muscle couldn't fix. Sounds like you got stuck with some real crap from summit.
 

mikestang63

SN Certified Technician
Aug 27, 2012
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Sep 26, 2014
#5
  • Sep 26, 2014
  • #5
Tell me about Chinese made crappola. Be glad you don't live in Florida where they built thousnds of homes with cheap, Chinese made drywall. It was full of toxic material that not only turned all the copper wires and plumbing in homes green, people were getting violently sick. The only solution was to gut the entire house and re-drywall the whole place, PLUS new A/C, plumbing, wiring, and any metal hardware. Most of the builders went bankrupt and insurance companies were refusing to pay claims. I would never buy a home built after 2002 here.

Back to auto parts- most US manufacturers have been offshoring to China for years- Ford, MSD, and numerous others that I can't say on this board for fear of the hammer. That is the first thing I ask when buying a new part- where is it made.
 

Bullitt347

I have been doing it wrong this whole time
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Sep 26, 2014
#6
  • Sep 26, 2014
  • #6
So Mike, if you do manage to get the hoses put together, you can always put a "Assembled in the USA" sticker on them. That should make you fell better, no?
 
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VibrantRedGT

"STANGNET'S PENGUIN SMACKER"
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
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Sep 26, 2014
#7
  • Sep 26, 2014
  • #7
I won't say who I use to work for about 16 years but they were big on us telling customers how everything was built in the USA and it actually worked for many years. Then several years ago is wasn't about quality or where things were made, it was all about price. So they turned to China to reproduce several product lines. They can make a smaller profit but they didn't have to touch the product (no overhead, no tooling, no union, etc.). They went with this philosophy just like everyone else did. This is why everything we buy is garbage.
 

mikestang63

SN Certified Technician
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Sep 26, 2014
#8
  • Sep 26, 2014
  • #8
VibrantRedGT said:
I won't say who I use to work for about 16 years but they were big on us telling customers how everything was built in the USA and it actually worked for many years. Then several years ago is wasn't about quality or where things were made, it was all about price. So they turned to China to reproduce several product lines. They can make a smaller profit but they didn't have to touch the product (no overhead, no tooling, no union, etc.). They went with this philosophy just like everyone else did. This is why everything we buy is garbage.
Click to expand...
Unfortunatley it also applies to services- every US company is offshoring their customer facing departments- billing, customer service, tech. You can't get a US based person on the phone to save your life.
 
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Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
Admin Dude
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Sep 26, 2014
#9
  • Sep 26, 2014
  • #9
Chinese Mail
Order Bride












Wonder what the build quality is on that.
 
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jrichker

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  • Sep 26, 2014
  • #10
mikestang63 said:
Unfortunatley it also applies to services- every US company is offshoring their customer facing departments- billing, customer service, tech. You can't get a US based person on the phone to save your life.
Click to expand...
I fix computers for a living, and I have had first hand frustration with what you just described.
When people ask me "What brand of computer should I buy?" I tell them to buy from a company that you can get tech support from a person whose first language is English at 9:00 PM on Sunday night. That makes sense to most folks.
Lest someone say that I am a redneck old goat and don't have an ear for "International languages", I grew up in southeast Texas and 40% of the people I knew were Mexicans, and 40% were Louisiana Cajuns. I got pretty good at understanding Spanish and French accents since that is what I grew up hearing. I still don't handle Middle East and Oriental accents very well. I work in a hospital where most of the physicians are from the Middle East and Oriental areas, so it gets interesting sometimes...
 
Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
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7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp
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Sep 27, 2014
#11
  • Sep 27, 2014
  • #11
PTFE? Bless you!
 

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.
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#12
  • Sep 27, 2014
  • #12
+1000 on the Chinese crap. If you do find quality lines made in the US, please post it on my facebook consumer support page, "I Hate Chinese Junk."

As for dealing with braided teflon hoses, there is a little bit of a trick to it. Put the top end on the hose first. Then, you absolutely have to cut the braided steel hose with a cut off wheel on a dremel. There is absolutely no other way to do it. If you use any other tool, it will distort the teflon and lead to multiple swear words. Blow with high pressure air to remove any debris from the cutting process Spread the braiding just a little bit, and install the ferrel. Visually inspect the inside of the hose to ensure that the ferrel is all the way tight against the teflon. Now there will always be a few straggler wire ends from the braiding that stick out to far and will interfere with the the threads. Cut off the straggler wire ends with a pair of dykes. Then screw down the top end to the bottom end. Done like 1000 of those little bastard joints. I still manage to stab myself under the fingernail with the wire every time.

Kurt
 
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95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself
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Sep 28, 2014
#13
  • Sep 28, 2014
  • #13
I'll just stick with stock rubber replacement, and keep my stress levels down. Oh yeah, and awesome work, looks great, keep it up.
 

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
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234
Birmingham, al
Sep 28, 2014
#14
  • Sep 28, 2014
  • #14
95BlueStallion said:
I'll just stick with stock rubber replacement, and keep my stress levels down. Oh yeah, and awesome work, looks great, keep it up.
Click to expand...
Kiss my ass, kiss my ass, and.... kiss my ass.

There is no "stock rubber replacement" when you have what I have. Stock for what? A 250 6 banger out of a maverick, that just now happens to be in a fox body, that has a 03 pump w/ a remote reservoir? You mean that kind of stock? The 03 hose is for a V8, and was just too busy. I got more than enough hoses and junk down there now as it is.
 
Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
Reactions: 85rkyboby

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,
15 Year Member
Nov 29, 1999
10,641
8,909
234
Birmingham, al
Sep 28, 2014
#15
  • Sep 28, 2014
  • #15
IDK where Fragola comes from, and where the products they sell are made, but I still have to have the one high pressure hose made, so I bought a 3' section, and 2 straight hose ends. We'll see if it's because Summits brand is inferior, or the installer is an incompetent. In 2 days we'll all know.
 
Last edited: Sep 28, 2014

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.
20+ Year Stangneter
Jun 14, 2004
9,288
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Acworth, GA
Sep 28, 2014
#16
  • Sep 28, 2014
  • #16
You're not incompetent. It really is that hard.

Kurt
 

95BlueStallion

My assy trans to myself
15 Year Member
Feb 22, 2007
5,124
3,088
214
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Sep 28, 2014
#17
  • Sep 28, 2014
  • #17
madmike1157 said:
Kiss my ass, kiss my ass, and.... kiss my ass.

There is no "stock rubber replacement" when you have what I have. Stock for what? A 250 6 banger out of a maverick, that just now happens to be in a fox body, that has a 03 pump w/ a remote reservoir? You mean that kind of stock? The 03 hose is for a V8, and was just too busy. I got more than enough hoses and junk down there now as it is.
Click to expand...

"Stock" as in rubber replacement trans cooler lines that you put your own ends on (like I put on my truck). A few hose clamps, and away we go.
 

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.
20+ Year Stangneter
Jun 14, 2004
9,288
1,631
214
Acworth, GA
Sep 28, 2014
#18
  • Sep 28, 2014
  • #18
I am reminded of my sloppy mechanics discussion topic from a few weeks ago, "What is your preferred brand of garden hose for your turbo oil return line?"

Kurt
 

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?
15 Year Member
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Sep 29, 2014
#19
  • Sep 29, 2014
  • #19
Mike, I built some braided -10 lines with straight ends the other day.. Such a pita to het started a literally gave up and drove them in with an impact. That got 'er.
 

mikestang63

SN Certified Technician
Aug 27, 2012
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Sep 29, 2014
#20
  • Sep 29, 2014
  • #20
I used to have something similar to this 15 years ago when I was into racing. Mike, have you tried this type of tool? It worked well for me.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/koul-tools


http://www.koultools.com/InstructionsAN.html
 
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