Pull transmission without draining fluid?

[Psydwaze]

I'm swapping out a clutch disc tonight and am trying to save some time and money.

Can the transmission can be removed without draining the fluid?

Can I just leave the driveshaft yoke in place to stop fluid from pouring out the tailshaft?

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Well, there's two obstacles here....one, you're more than likely going to leak fluid no matter what you do...and you'll make a mess. Secondly, and this is the big one, unless you've got a car lift and a trany lift like a professional shop would have, you're going to have to pick up the trany and put it back in with all that fluid in, which may not sound like a lot but it's damn heavy with fluid in it.

Just out of curiosity, are you also taking out the whole bell housing and everything at the same time or just pulling the trany out from the bell and then removing that by itself? If you're doing it all at once, it's MUCH easier to pull the trany from the bell by itself and go about it that way.

 

[TomCat]

And won't that yoke just slip right off of the output shaft if you give it like... any angle? I'd just drain it and put new stuff in.

 

[jrichker]

Drain it or wear it... your choice...

If you have a Tremec T5, ATF is so cheap that I wouldn't worry about saving it.

If you have a Tremec 3550 or TKO , carefully drain the transmission before you start. Make sure you have a perfectly clean catch container since you are going to reuse the fluid. They both use GM Syncromesh which is $9-$10 or more a quart, and it takes 2 3/4 quarts. You will need a helper or transmission jack since the 3550 & TKO weigh 100+ pounds. Having done it twice with a 3550, I can say for sure that you cannot get the trans back in place without a transmission jack or a strong helper. If you can, you are probably so big that getting all that muscle under the car is a real challenge.


Here's some help for you...

Edited 16-Nov-2006 to include jackstand height requirements.

Before you get started, buy a Chilton or Haynes shop manual. You will need it for the bolt torques and patterns.

1.) Jack up the car front and rear, use jack stands to be safe. You'll need about 24"-27" clearance to get the transmission in and out if you use a transmission jack. Tall jackstands are the order of the day.
2.) Put a 2x4 wood block under the engine oil pan to support the engine. Jack it up slightly. This prevents damage to the motor mounts when the transmission mount is removed. The oil pan is plenty strong for this purpose. Disconnect the negative battery cable. You will need a couple of extensions and a ½” swivel socket to remove the top starter mount bolt, which is accessed from the front and under the headers. Leave the starter wiring connected unless you plan to change the starter at this time.
3.) Label all the wiring for the transmission before disconnecting it. Disconnect the O2 sensor cables at their connectors. Disconnect the speedo cable by pulling it straight out of the VSS sensor, or by removing the bolt that holds the VSS sensor in place. If you remove the VSS sensor, zip bag & tag it along with the bolt that secures in place.
4.) Remove the drive shaft, the rear bolts are 12 MM. You will need a high quality 12 point wrench for this: do not skimp or you risk rounding off the bolt heads. A helper to step on the brake to keep the drive shaft from turning will be helpful. Use your foot to apply pressure to the wrench to loosen the bolts. Note the yellow markings in the drive shaft and write down their alignment.
5.) Put a catch pan under the rear of the transmission to catch the fluid when you slide the yoke out of the transmission. I recommend that you drain the transmission at this time. There is a pair of pipe plug filler ports on the side of the transmission. Use the lower plug to drain the fluid.
6.) Inside the car, remove the shifter boot and then remove the shifter handle
7.) Remove the H pipe & rear trans cross member. The chassis to cross member bolts are metric, you need a 15 MM & 17 MM socket or wrench. Note the direction and size of the humps on the cross member and write it down. Inspect the rear transmission mount and replace if damaged.
8.) Remove the transmission. You will need a long extension & a universal joint with a ¾” socket. A transmission jack or a helper is almost a must have unless you can bench press 75-100 pounds with ease.
8.) Remove the clutch cable cover and pry the throwout bearing arm forward enough to slide the cable off.
9.) Remove the bell housing using the long extension & a universal joint socket. Note how the throwout bearing rides it the throwout bearing arm, and which end faces the clutch pressure plate. Write it down or make a drawing if necessary. Also note the arrangement of the wavy spring that holds the throwout bearing in place on the arm. Put it together incorrectly, and you have an annoying noise you can't find easily.
10.) Remove the bolts securing the pressure plate to flywheel. Be sure to label & zip bag them separately from the rest of the parts. Work in a star pattern to reduce stress on the pressure plate mounting tabs.
11.) Remove the flywheel mount bolts, as you will need to either replace or re-surface the flywheel. Be sure to label & zip bag them separately from the rest of the parts. Tap the locator dowels out of the flywheel with a 1/4" pin punch. Zip bag them together with the flywheel bolts.
12.) Inspect the transmission input shaft where the throwout bearing rides. Replace it if worn or damaged.
13.) Inspect the throwout bearing, throwout bearing arm and ball pivot stud for wear or damage.
14.) Inspect the rear oil seal for leakage and replace if required.
15.) Remove & replace the pilot bearing. A puller borrowed or rented is helpful here. A wood block will be used to drive it home.
16.) Install the flywheel, noting that the bolts are an odd pattern, and it only lines up one way so that all the bolts go in easily. Torque to specs according to the shop manual.
17.) Install the clutch disk with the hub springs facing the rear of the car. Use a pilot tool available for $3-$4 from the auto parts store to line it up.
18. Install the pressure plate, be sure to use the pilot tool prior to tightening the pressure plate bolts. Torque to specs according to the shop manual. Remove the pilot tool when you are finished torquing the bolts.
19.) Install the throwout bearing on the throwout bearing arm, noting the direction of the bearing and it mounting in the arm. Position the wavy spring to secure the throwout bearing in the arm. Refer to your notes to make sure you have it positioned correctly.
20.) Install the bell housing. Torque to specs according to the shop manual. Install the starter, the top bolt is reached from the front with the extensions & universal socket.
21. Install the transmission, have the transmission jack or helper at hand to lift it into place. Watch out that the stub of the shifter does not tear the shifter boot. Some 7/16 bolts with the heads cut off can be used to help support the transmission as you slide it home. It may be necessary to press the clutch pedal to get the transmission to slide the last ½” or so. Remove the guide studs if you used them & torque to specs according to the shop manual.
22.) Reinstall the clutch cable by prying on the throwout bearing arm. Replacement of the stock cable or quadrant is recommended if you haven’t already done so. With adjustable cables, both nuts go on the back side of the throwout bearing arm.
23.) Reinstall the rear crossmember & transmission mount. Torque to specs according to the shop manual.
24.) Reinstall the wiring and speedo cable or VSS sensor if you removed it. On cars with a VSS sensor, push straight in on the speedo cable and it will snap into place on the VSS sensor.
25.) Reinstall the drive shaft, slide the yoke in place. Align the rear yellow markings and install the bolts. A helper to step on the brake to keep the drive shaft from turning will be helpful. Use your foot to apply pressure to the wrench to tighten the bolts.
26.) Remove the jack from under the engine oil pan.
27.) Refill the transmission with the proper fluid. T5’s use Dextron ATF, Tremec 3550’s use GM Synchromesh. There is a pair of pipe plug filler ports on the side of the transmission. Use the top plug as the filler port.
28.) Adjust the clutch cable according the manufacturer’s instructions if you have an adjustable cable & quadrant. Set the emergency brake and use the drag it provides in order to determine where the clutch starts to engage. You should have 1 -1 ½” free play from the top. The cable will not have any slack and will have some preload on it when properly adjusted.
29.) Re-install the H pipe and remaining items.
30.) When you have visually checked all the bolts, fittings and other parts are present and not interfering with each other, then take the car down off the jack stands.
31.) Be prepared to put the car back up on the jack stands to adjust the clutch and tighten up any loose items found after the test drive..

 

[donsbad68]

please drain it and do it right

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

My god man.....


Jrichker you're the MAN when it comes to tech info, but some of that came out like a Haynes manual..lol. Here's the one i don't like:

21. Install the transmission, have the transmission jack or helper at hand to lift it into place.


That's like Haynes.... "To remove the transmission, remove the bolts and remove from car. To install the transmission, do step one in reverse" or something like that LOL!

What i do, is get yourself lined up under the car with the trany at your side and the bell housing kinda right under your head or maybe just off to the side. You need to have the car up off the ground a decent height for this to work but we do it with jack stands with no problem. Then, roll to your side facing the trany and hug it like a teddy bear (don't lie, you hug teddy bears all the time). Then just roll back over to your back and bring the trany with you. At that position you should only have a little ways to actually pick up the trany and slip it into position.

 

[jrichker]

My god man.....


Jrichker you're the MAN when it comes to tech info, but some of that came out like a Haynes manual..lol. Here's the one i don't like:

21. Install the transmission, have the transmission jack or helper at hand to lift it into place.


That's like Haynes.... "To remove the transmission, remove the bolts and remove from car. To install the transmission, do step one in reverse" or something like that LOL!

What i do, is get yourself lined up under the car with the trany at your side and the bell housing kinda right under your head or maybe just off to the side. You need to have the car up off the ground a decent height for this to work but we do it with jack stands with no problem. Then, roll to your side facing the trany and hug it like a teddy bear (don't lie, you hug teddy bears all the time). Then just roll back over to your back and bring the trany with you. At that position you should only have a little ways to actually pick up the trany and slip it into position.

Hugging a 100+ pound Tremec 3550 will literally take your breath away... I have to use a transmission jack, homemade of course. Email me for details and pictures...

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Hugging a 100+ pound Tremec 3550 will literally take your breath away... I have to use a transmission jack, homemade of course. Email me for details and pictures...

It does! I don't know maybe i'm stronger or bigger than the average guy but i did it with mine. The only part i needed help with was getting the bolts started since it took all my focus to keep the trany in place and lined up with the holes. Once you get 2 bolts in then it's not so bad.

I guess us corn fed country boys are a different breed

 

[dragnazz5.0]

i had doing trannys on my back...thank god i work at a tranny shop now. but ive done a c4 on my car having to sit it on my chest and bench press it into place and ive done a t56 that way. that t56 was more than 100 lbs and its not very smooth on the bottom so it hurts when it sits on your chest

to the original poster....just drain the fluid and save yourself the aggravation of having to clean up 4 quarts of tranny fluid from your garage floor in the middle of you project

 

[Grn92LX]

Yep, with a spare yoke in the output shaft it will NOT leak nor will the yoke slip out. I've done it.

I would just change it for the sake of peace of mind of having new fluid in.

 

[Psydwaze]

I think I'll go ahead and drain it into a clean pan and reuse the fluid. I just did this about a year ago so I'm not too concerned about changing the fluid.

It's a 3550 and I'll remove the transmission and then the bellhousing separately. The last two times I did this, I used a small floor jack to raise and lower the tranny while performing one hell of a balancing act.

Thanks for the opinions and tech.


Jrichker: Can you post some pics of your homemade transmission jack? I'll email you a request also.

 

[v8only]

sometimes if you have that expensive gm sincromesh fluid in your tremec, and have changed it recently, it helps to plug everything up and keep the fluid.

a yoke in the back will be tight enough to not slip out. also, leave the speedo gear in the trans, but pull the clip and slide the speedo cable away from the gear, this way it won't leak out that hole. You could also remove the shifter handle and drop it with the base still bolted on, this will ensure 0 leakage. However, I agree, if you're running a t5, just dump and repump some good atf.

 

[Mustang5L5]

I've done it before. The driveshaft yoke trick works and DOESN't spill any fluid if you keep the yoke nice and tight (i ziptie it in)

I've done a T-5, T-3650 and a T-56 with the fluid still in.

Granted i had a lift and help to do this

 

[rd]

I did drain the fluid the time I changed a T5, but if you have a tailshaft plug, or can keep the yoke in it, there's no reason you can't leave it full.

I actually have done this with a C4, to change the converter. Other than the cooler lines and converter leaking when disconnected/removed, it worked.

It turns out that, unless you have a spare yoke or the specific plug, your chance of making a major mess are very high.... I changed my 4R70W fluid last Fri, and even with 2 pans, I made a major mess.

 

[Psydwaze]

We'll I drained it last night and it doesn't look clean enough to go back in so I'll be buying more Penzoil Snychromesh if I can find it. I called three places and nobody stocks it.

Just a note to anyone thinking about swapping just a clutch disc thats been slipping for quite some time. Odds are the pressure plate will not be salvagable. So save yourself some time and outrageous overnight shipping fees and just order the complete kit. Lesson learned.

 

[v8only]

I ALWAYS replace both anytime I do a clutch job.

 

[Mustang5L5]

I would replace both the pressure plate and the disk.

If one is smoked, the other is probably glazed up or compromised in some other manner