Hey guys... we had our first 90 degree day today.. and the windows down wasnt cutting it at all. I need to recharge my A/C.. but i dunno what path i should take. Ive heard from a variety of ppl that if you convert to 134a then your chancing your compressor or accumulator taking a crap on you. I also heard it doesnt blow as cold?? Is any of this true? I also heard about a product called freeze 12, does anyone know anything about it? Does it really blow colder than 134a? How do i go about buying some? WHich route should i go with? I already bought a 134a conversionk it just so i could read the direction and try to learn some more about this. But i can always take it back as long as its unused. Any opinions?
R-134a Conversion... VS Freeze 12
- Thread starter Lynx331
- Start date
04sleeper
Founding Member
When I converted my car over to R-134 it worked great! It would blow 38-40 degrees out of the center vent on the highway crusing.
I replaced my receiver dryer, condensor, and both lines along with all new O-rings.
I replaced my receiver dryer, condensor, and both lines along with all new O-rings.
I'm kind of bias on the whole R134 vs Freeze 12 debate, but here's my take on the matter. Freeze 12 does not cool any better or any worse then conventional R134. Here's why. Freeze 12 is 80% 134 and 20% 142 b. The 142 b is the gas in Freeze 12 designed to carry the mineral oil throughout your A/C system. The only advantage of Freeze 12 over R134 is that it's a great alternative for lazy people. Freeze 12 was made to sell to people that were too lazy to change out the mineral oil in their existing R12 System ( But even with Freeze 12 YOU STILL NEED TO CHANGE OUT the Accumulator with R134a compatable unit, replace all the Black O-rings with Green O-rings, and replace the hi level and low level hoses with Barrier Style hoses). When you convert to R134, you have to remove ALL the old mineral oil in the system (since it's not compatable with R134) and replace it with PAG or Ester oil. Since Freeze 12 is 80% R134a (which is not compatable with mineral oil), something is needed to carry the mineral oil. The 20% of 142b used in Freeze 12 carries the mineral oil in the system. But oil is important to the life of the compressor so why try to carry sufficient oil with only 20% of the refrigerant? The other thing to keep in mind is that 142 b has smaller molecules than R134. So if (or when) you develope a leak in a Freeze 12 system the 142 B is the first gas to leak out. Since 142 B is the gas that carries the oil in the system (and now you have none).....you have no oil circulating in the system which will lead to compressor lock-up over a very short period of time.
If it were me. I would do a straight R134 conversion and here's why. 1)Freeze 12 is 80% R134 anyway so why use a "blend" if you can go 100% R-134. 2) Sounds like your already planning on replacing your accumulator, hoses, O-rings, and compressor with R134 compatable units. If so, just flush out the condensor and evaporator to remove the remaining mineral oil and your system will now be ready for PAG oil which is R134 compatable. I'm not trying to sway you one way or another, but I just wanted to make everyone aware that Freeze-12 is not some type of miracle gas capable of R-12 cooling. It's a R134 gas which opperates on mineral oil assuming YOU HAVE NO LEAKS and none of the 142B leaks out. Good Luck with your decession.
If it were me. I would do a straight R134 conversion and here's why. 1)Freeze 12 is 80% R134 anyway so why use a "blend" if you can go 100% R-134. 2) Sounds like your already planning on replacing your accumulator, hoses, O-rings, and compressor with R134 compatable units. If so, just flush out the condensor and evaporator to remove the remaining mineral oil and your system will now be ready for PAG oil which is R134 compatable. I'm not trying to sway you one way or another, but I just wanted to make everyone aware that Freeze-12 is not some type of miracle gas capable of R-12 cooling. It's a R134 gas which opperates on mineral oil assuming YOU HAVE NO LEAKS and none of the 142B leaks out. Good Luck with your decession.
Saleen0679
10 Year Member
89 Saleen#455 said:
I was wondering how Duracool was getting away with some of their statements until I saw they were located in Canada. Last I heard the EPA made it illegal to use flammable refrigerants in MVAC applications in the US.
PuterAmI
Member
Yeah, but is this really a bad thing?89 Saleen#455 said:
Gasoline is also flammable (duh). No one gives it a thought at all these days.
PuterAmI said:
I guess my question is why would anyone want to use a flammable refridgerant in their A/C system if there's a safer alternative(s) that produce the same cooling results? I see your point on gasoline, but there is no "viable" non-flammable alternative for gasoline unless you want to invest in one of those vegetable oil conversion kits
PuterAmI
Member
89 Saleen#455 said:
Would you mind telling me why you think it is not safe?
A viable alternative to gasoline is an electric car or a bicycle or...
In other words, I am only trying to figure out if you mention it being flammable for some reason. I do not see it as a problem. I see it only as marketing hype.
PuterAmI said:
Flammable refrigerants pose a significant danger to a vehicle’s occupants should a leak occur. A spark from a cigarette or a switch can/will ignite ANY leaking refrigerant causing an explosion and turning the vehicle’s interior into an inferno. All it takes is one little pinhole leak in a component such as the evaporator and boom......you won't know what hit you! It only takes about four ounces of a flammable hydrocarbon refrigerant such as propane or butane to create an explosive mixture inside a typical automobile passenger compartment. Would you ever consider running a liquid fuel pressure gauge in the cabin of your vehicle? If not, then why would you consider using a flammable refrigerant in your A/C system? In theory, they both represent the same risk.
Frontal collisions can also release the refrigerant if the condenser is damaged, which could result in a severe underhood fire causing extensive damage to the vehicle.
There’s also a risk to service technicians who might encounter leaks while servicing a vehicle or operating recovery/recycling equipment.
Just to clarify, my comment about a safer viable alternative for gasoline was directed at internal combustion engines. What is a safer, more viable, drop-in, alternative fuel for gasoline engines? My point being, anyone that chooses to use a flammable hydrocarbon in their A/C system does so at their own risk because there are more than enough drop-in replacment refrigerants on the market that do not pose a safety risk. The same can not be said for gasoline for those of us running internal combustion engines in our vehicles.
In my view, it comes down to risk vs. reward. Why would anyone want to risk the safety of themselves or their passengers by introducing a flammable substance into their A/C system if it's not necessary? Is the 3-to-4 degree temp. drop over R-134A worth it? If so, then why not spend the money and have the system refilled with R-12, which is perfectly safe and has a proven track record.
Just my two cents.....and I'll step down off my soap box
89 Saleen#455 - Excellent explanation.
The one thing that has not been said is that in order to buy any refrigerant other than R134a, you need a EPA 609 MVAC certification. Kind of makes the whole argument about DIY and alternative refrigerants pointless unless you pay the $20 and pass the certification test.
See www.epatest.com for more details
The one thing that has not been said is that in order to buy any refrigerant other than R134a, you need a EPA 609 MVAC certification. Kind of makes the whole argument about DIY and alternative refrigerants pointless unless you pay the $20 and pass the certification test.
See www.epatest.com for more details
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