Real-live 4 cyl Cobra II on ebay

After some thought last night, and these posts, I think I've decided to keep it stock. It definitely would be preserving a piece of automotive history. I already have two fast cars, and my '05 "eleanor" will be right next to the 77 at shows anyways. And above all, you are right, who cares about everyone else. That being said, how hard is it finding the things needed to rebuild this 2.3L?

DarkFireGT said:

After some thought last night, and these posts, I think I've decided to keep it stock. It definitely would be preserving a piece of automotive history. I already have two fast cars, and my '05 "eleanor" will be right next to the 77 at shows anyways. And above all, you are right, who cares about everyone else. That being said, how hard is it finding the things needed to rebuild this 2.3L?

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Easier than finding parts for the total V8 conversion, for the most part. The II was never designed from its inception to have a V8 engine and drivetrain. As such, more than a few specific parts for V8 drivetrains are in much shorter supply, also due in part to a shorter production run ('75-78).
'74's have some parts interchangebility issues with the later V8 cars due to the retrofitting of the V8. Keeping your car stock, will keep that from being an issue and allow you to aquire and use some mechanical items off these earlier cars as well, if the need be. An added bonus, is that there aren't nearly as many people looking for them, keeping prices down while having a better supply.
Body and interior items are pretty much the same however, and it dosn't look like you will need much in that area, which is a good thing. Here you are in the same boat as the rest of us should you need anything.

It's good that you have the attitude to not be overly concerned about the opinions of others. Displaying a Cobra II with a 4cyl would certainly be a huge challenge otherwise. It's hard enough at certain shows, even with an 8 under the hood, to not feel (at times) like the red headed stepchild of the Mustang crowd. You will hear negative remarks about keeping it stock from certain people, and especially those that don't see the value in any cars that don't have performance engines. Always remember to just consider the source at those times, and know that you are doing the right thing, while having something more than a little unusual and interesting to those that know what these cars were all about.

Those of us with V6s and 4s can do pretty well because so many people have swapped out their engines for V8s and have parts lying around they don't need anymore.


Denice

77 coupe V6

I don't see the big deal about keeping II's stock. They aren't valuable anyway, it's all really in what you want to do with it I guess. My car probably has 10k invested and still in current shape would only sell for 1,000 bucks.... Well maybe more if I sold motor and trans seperate.

Eos said:

I don't see the big deal about keeping II's stock.

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Of course you don't Honey .... It's called preserving history. Something one needs a sense of before they can undrstand it.

Now go take your place at the childrens table like a good little girl, you've been sitting with the grown ups long enough.

They aren't valuable anyway

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Define valuable.

Folly77 said:

Those of us with V6s and 4s can do pretty well because so many people have swapped out their engines for V8s and have parts lying around they don't need anymore.

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My V6 and it's specific parts has been pulled and put into storage in case I ever want to return the car to bone stock.

Wart said:

Of course you don't Honey .... It's called preserving history. Something one needs a sense of before they can undrstand it.

Now go take your place at the childrens table like a good little girl, you've been sitting with the grown ups long enough.





Define valuable.

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I just think it sucks how you can have a nicely restored II and you can't get more then 11k out of it. There are other mustangs in bad shape that would fetch that. I didn't say I agreed with it, thats just how it is. History or not, they still get kicked out of the classic catogory by the majority. And the majority is who is setting the values.

Maybe in the next generation, Ford will come out with a Mustang II and Cobra II, then these will become valuable again, and we'll all be rich

I see good reason to keep it stock, and to drop a V8 in it. But preserving history is important. Look at Leno. That's all he does all day. Wakes up at 6 a.m. pretty much every day, to preserve history. I hope someday I can have a collection 1/6 of the size of his.

Although hinted on, no one really listed what would be needed for a V8 Swap.

-1975-1978 Mustang II motor mounts and frame mounts. Motor mounts can be bought new from Ford, frame mounts must be sourced used. (someone here likely has some).

-A II has a II specific C4 Automatic transmission. It has a specific, Bell housing torque, flex plate and starter and seperation plate (tin plate between bell housing and engine).

-Front and rear springs

-Very possibly the rear end. I have only seen one II with a 6 and whatever?? most had the 8" Again likely one of us has a 8" you could buy

-75-78 V8 II rad and hoses.

-V8 throttle cable and down shift rod linkage.

-Mustang II Headers (Headman are the only ones that can be bought new). Many prefer the Dynomax/Blackjack headers that can often be found N.O.S off e-bay). Mustang II exhaust manifolds are pea shooters, best used for balast or paper weights.

-Custom exhaust (this is a whole other topic on it's own).

My sugestion: Carefully remove the original engine and moth ball it in your garage for the future.( A 4cyl Cobra is a very rare car). Buy an XR4TiI or Turbo 4cyl Thunderbird parts car. Swap in the turbo engine. The V8 in a II was an afterthought! It hardly fits in the car and is placed way too far forward and it is not even centered! The Turbo 4 would be an easy swap that could be reversed with ease for preservation sake. The turbo 4 can makes V8HP stock 175hp in XR4TI non=intercooled state and 190hp in intercooled Turbo T-bird 5 spd spec. The car would handle better and have the V8 perfomance you want. The 2.3l Turbo has a big aftermarket following and easy bolt-on mega HP is easy to obtain. I have a V8 car, but many here have swaped in the Turbo 4 so they could give you specifics. I don't think you would have to change anything?? If the car is Auto, it could of had a C3 or a C4. A C3 may not handle the stress of the Turbo. The C4 could use a performance rebuild to help cope. The 8" rear end would have no trouble. The smaller rear axle would not be happy Mustangs are intended to be enjoyed and I can't see a 4cyl Mustang II ever being a numrically valuable car. Personally I would like to see more II's on the road and have no moral objection to the V8 swap. Guys it could be way worse! Some old geezer could have bought it and lopped off the front suspension to build a rod and the rest of it would be on it's way to korea to be melted down to make new Hyundai's

Eos said:

I just think it sucks how you can have a nicely restored II and you can't get more then 11k out of it.

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So value is measured in money?

There are other mustangs in bad shape that would fetch that.

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So Value is measured in money?

I didn't say I agreed with it, thats just how it is.

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Value in money?

History or not, they still get kicked out of the classic catogory by the majority.

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IIs don't belong anywhere but their own class.

Because the II belongs in a class of their own.

But this is nothing to do with value. ?

And the majority is who is setting the values.

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And this final value is measured how?

DarkFireGT said:

Maybe in the next generation, Ford will come out with a Mustang II and Cobra II, then these will become valuable again, and we'll all be rich

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And you measure value how?

I see good reason to keep it stock, and to drop a V8 in it. But preserving history is important.

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And if you have the resources to possess the three commercial go fast toys you ought to be able to scratch together the jing to build a fast I4.

The 2300 has one hell of a history you can exploit.

I'd feel the same way about my car if its dollar value was 50 cents or 10 grand.

If my car was "worth" more I guess that would be like getting the stamp of approval from other people.

But since I don't care whether people approve of my car and I'm not planning to sell, my car's dollar value is kind of meaningless.

I'm sure it's frustrating to put together a nice II and not be able to get much for it when it's sold.

But I'm glad IIs are cheap. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to afford one.


Denice

77 coupe V6

DarkFireGT, are you having the car shipped, if so who are you using? Also wondering if you got the AFS Mach I wheels yet for the 05, if so could you post a pic?

Mustangj said:

-Mustang II Headers (Headman are the only ones that can be bought new).

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You can buy Hooker Super Comps new, and they fit better.

Mustangj said:

Although hinted on, no one really listed what would be needed for a V8 Swap.

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For the most part, most part, your list is accurate.

Well my car is "valuable" to me due to sentimental value... but sentimental value doesn't mean **** unless you are the owner.

I think I mispoke/didn't think about the posts I wrote. I do not plan on selling this car, so resale value or making money isn't on my mind at all. When completed, it will hopefully be priceless to me. I just meant I don't want to get crapped on for having a 4 banger. I know how it is in the modular world. I'm just hoping the classic world is different. But my mind has defintely been made up for keeping it original.

I'm not having the car shipped. I will be driving the Magnum out next week, or the week after to pick it up and tow it back.

Here's a pic or two of the AFS wheels. There's more in the link in my sig. They fit great.

Well, I hinted at it earlier...parhaps I better make it more clear.

For the most part, it's inevitable that you will get your share of being "crapped on" by many in the "classic" crowd, just like the rest of us. You may even get it just a little worse, preceisly on account of your Cobra having a 4 cyl. But, it certainly isn't as bad as it used to be. You simply need to have a "don't care" attitude, in regard to their opinions. After all, it's not like they are the standard by which you need to be accountable or judged, unless you somehow feel a need for their blessings. I know I don't.

II ownership isn't for the faint of heart...(and for many reasons)...but, especially if you are looking for acceptance by Mustang owners of the vintage and/or other late models. However, you will find lot of non Mustang owners that will be very positive about (and accepting of) the II. They are real head turners on the street as well. Your II will probably get more attention there than your '05.

Highly modified II's usually get some additional recognition in at shows, for much the same reason as other cars displaying similar performance mods (compared to stock). Show crowds and spectators in general just like to see stuff like that. Other less casual observers (true enthusiasts) aren't always so impressed, simply by the amount of money someone can spend buying performance parts. They are usually looking at cars for a lot of other reasons.

Pinto and Maverick owners will (for the most part) be in your corner. You might find attending mixed make shows as much or possibly more fun than all Ford shows. If your really concerned about what others think, just put a fortune in the paint job and keep the hood closed. You may not win a trophy for that, but you'll still have lots of admirers!

Wart said:

The 2300 has one hell of a history you can exploit.

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This could be a viable option as well, making for increased performace without radically changing the package as a whole. Racer Walsh Inc. could probably help you out here, and they have a long history in regard to modding these engines, along with other performance equiptment used on the II's cousin, Pinto.

Eos said:

Well my car is "valuable" to me due to sentimental value... but sentimental value doesn't mean **** unless you are the owner.

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Oh Honey,

Is the stuff people say about your car getting under your skin?

You new people really do have your problems with II ownership, I think your biggest problem lies in the money thing and that's where I believe most of your definition of value lies.

Then there is the other new persons problem with people busting on them and their car. Their just trying to get one up on you and aparently it's working.

Shame we're not closer, I could have some fun showing you to handle the *******s.