roll bar opinions

undercnstrction · Oct 9, 2010

once i get the interior pulled out the first thing to go back in will be a roll cage. i've looked at the ones that maximum motosports offers and the cages from jegs. i talked to a local shop that will do a 6 pt cage for about $400. for the same money i can get a much more "involved" cage from jegs and do the install myself. This car won't spend much time, if any, on the drag stip. it will be used primarily as a DD with some stints in auto-x, road courses and open road racing. any opinions on where to buy a good kit and how extensive it should be? i noticed on the MM kits, they have removable bars and swing out door bars. would that weaken the structure?

90lxcoupe · Oct 9, 2010

if the car isnt going to be on the dragstrip and you are using it as a DD then dont even bother with the cage period...

Cobra912 · Oct 9, 2010

90lxcoupe said:
if the car isnt going to be on the dragstrip and you are using it as a DD then dont even bother with the cage period...

x 2

undercnstrction · Oct 11, 2010

got it. thanx for the input.

90lxcoupe · Oct 11, 2010

what i could suggest you doing is finding a good local chassis shop and have them box in your tq boxes and weld the uppers. Maybe even add a set of thru the floor subframes. I wouldnt waste my time with the traditonal subframes that go under the car. They just create ground clearance problems and in my expierience the thru the floor subframes only cost me 150 more to install and work alot better

undercnstrction · Oct 11, 2010

90lxcoupe said:
what i could suggest you doing is finding a good local chassis shop and have them box in your tq boxes and weld the uppers. Maybe even add a set of thru the floor subframes. I wouldnt waste my time with the traditonal subframes that go under the car. They just create ground clearance problems and in my expierience the thru the floor subframes only cost me 150 more to install and work alot better

this may be another newb question, but what are thru floor subframes? i've seen the traditional connectors on everyones site. is it something that is custom made by a chassis shop or do i buy them somewhere and them put in?

regarding the torque boxes, that is the "box" where the control arms bolted to correct? i haven't been under the car yet to see what kind of shape they are in. if i don't plan to do any 1/4 mile stuff (at least not on a regular basis) would this area still be of concern?

90lxcoupe · Oct 11, 2010

undercnstrction said:
this may be another newb question, but what are thru floor subframes? i've seen the traditional connectors on everyones site. is it something that is custom made by a chassis shop or do i buy them somewhere and them put in?

regarding the torque boxes, that is the "box" where the control arms bolted to correct? i haven't been under the car yet to see what kind of shape they are in. if i don't plan to do any 1/4 mile stuff (at least not on a regular basis) would this area still be of concern?

Thru the floor subframes are done by cutting a channel from the front portion of the frame rail that connects to the front of the drives seat area, and back to the torque boxes and then usually a piece of square stock is welded in, and made to sit flush with the bottom of the car. Yes a chassis shop would have to put them in.

The tq boxes are where the control arms mount to the body, and can get beat up even in a stock car thats never been to the track. They are very weak from the factory.

Just out of curiosity why are you so gung ho on putting a rollbar in your car if you dont plan on racing it?

Shaolin Crane · Oct 11, 2010

90lxcoupe said:
what i could suggest you doing is finding a good local chassis shop and have them box in your tq boxes and weld the uppers. Maybe even add a set of thru the floor subframes. I wouldnt waste my time with the traditonal subframes that go under the car. They just create ground clearance problems and in my expierience the thru the floor subframes only cost me 150 more to install and work alot better

My subframes never scrape, any where. Secondly you cant have through the floor subframes and a torque arm. Not sure if its been proven but i think the MM subframes make the car just as stiff as through the floors when used with a torque arm.

Not saying you're wrong but i needed to throw in the other side of that post, if he was ever thinking of doing a TA and did through the floors then he would still need to do traditional ones to mount it, and thats alot of extra weight.

undercnstrction · Oct 11, 2010

90lxcoupe said:
Just out of curiosity why are you so gung ho on putting a rollbar in your car if you dont plan on racing it?

i don't necessarily have my heart set on putting one it, it's another mod i was looking into. there are two reasons....from what i've read they help with chassis stiffening and i'm HOPING (granted it will be a rare occasion) to do some open road racing (silver state classic) and some road course stuff. i just won't be spending any time on the 1/4 mile.

90lxcoupe · Oct 11, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
My subframes never scrape, any where. Secondly you cant have through the floor subframes and a torque arm. Not sure if its been proven but i think the MM subframes make the car just as stiff as through the floors when used with a torque arm.

Not saying you're wrong but i needed to throw in the other side of that post, if he was ever thinking of doing a TA and did through the floors then he would still need to do traditional ones to mount it, and thats alot of extra weight.

Looking at the tq arm setup, you could just weld a bracket to the TTF connector. Theres really no such thing as "cant" when it comes to cars im sure people will say you CANT run 275's on the front of a fox mustang without aftermarket fenders, but you proved that one wrong.

undercnstrction said:
i don't necessarily have my heart set on putting one it, it's another mod i was looking into. there are two reasons....from what i've read they help with chassis stiffening and i'm HOPING (granted it will be a rare occasion) to do some open road racing (silver state classic) and some road course stuff. i just won't be spending any time on the 1/4 mile.

I think there is much better, more creative ways to stiffen up the chassis then putting a rollbar in, im not trying to discourage you, but i think you could spend your money in other places in the suspension and be much better off then having a rollbar in your daily driver.

undercnstrction · Oct 11, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
My subframes never scrape, any where. Secondly you cant have through the floor subframes and a torque arm. Not sure if its been proven but i think the MM subframes make the car just as stiff as through the floors when used with a torque arm.

Not saying you're wrong but i needed to throw in the other side of that post, if he was ever thinking of doing a TA and did through the floors then he would still need to do traditional ones to mount it, and thats alot of extra weight.

glad you brought this up then....my wish list of rear suspension parts include a torque arm, panhard, UCAs and LCAs, and subframes.

90lxcoupe · Oct 11, 2010

undercnstrction said:
glad you brought this up then....my wish list of rear suspension parts include a torque arm, panhard, UCAs and LCAs, and subframes.

You should do all of that stuff first, you will be much happier with the way the car reacts to those changes.

Shaolin Crane · Oct 11, 2010

90lxcoupe said:
Looking at the tq arm setup, you could just weld a bracket to the TTF connector. Theres really no such thing as "cant" when it comes to cars im sure people will say you CANT run 275's on the front of a fox mustang without aftermarket fenders, but you proved that one wrong.

I think there is much better, more creative ways to stiffen up the chassis then putting a rollbar in, im not trying to discourage you, but i think you could spend your money in other places in the suspension and be much better off then having a rollbar in your daily driver.

Yeah never a cant, but i'd be nervous about something like that being added with the way a TA works, seeing as how it mostly has torsional force im not sure it could be tuned properly, you'd really have to get your **** straight when setting pinion angle and squaring it to the car. Im sure its possible, but i doubt its really needed when its already been proven that it will be just as stiff, i think when it comes down comparing the subframes you just cant look at the parts themselves, cause the TTF are hands down better, but then you combine traditional SF's with a panhard bar, strut tower brace you get a VERY stiff package, i still think the OP needs to figure out exactly what he wants to do with the car first.

Shaolin Crane · Oct 11, 2010

undercnstrction said:
glad you brought this up then....my wish list of rear suspension parts include a torque arm, panhard, UCAs and LCAs, and subframes.

ehhh? TA replaces your UCA's

undercnstrction · Oct 11, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
Yeah never a cant, but i'd be nervous about something like that being added with the way a TA works, seeing as how it mostly has torsional force im not sure it could be tuned properly, you'd really have to get your **** straight when setting pinion angle and squaring it to the car. Im sure its possible, but i doubt its really needed when its already been proven that it will be just as stiff, i think when it comes down comparing the subframes you just cant look at the parts themselves, cause the TTF are hands down better, but then you combine traditional SF's with a panhard bar, strut tower brace you get a VERY stiff package, i still think the OP needs to figure out exactly what he wants to do with the car first.

i dont' know that i would have the guts to take my car to a shop and have them cut channels in the floor for the TTF subframes. i don't believe my intended purpose would warrant such a drastic move. as far as knowing what i want to do with the car, that's what i'm starting all of these different threads for . i'm asking you guys what works and what doesn't. i know what i would like the car to do, and once you guys set me in the correct direction i have to see if i have the $$$ to put it together.

undercnstrction · Oct 11, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
ehhh? TA replaces your UCA's

sorry, started daydreaming about MMs catalog and got carried away with the pieces/parts.......

Cobra912 · Oct 12, 2010

Don't know anything about open course road racing - rollbar/cage required? If not don't bother, it's a pretty big investement.

SMOKEDYA · Oct 12, 2010

Yeah i agree!Dont do a cage if not needed!Looks like your trying to be something your not.Thats a big reason why i havent done one,but i'm sure when i'm done with this part of the build i'll need one Hell if your doing a cage just add a parachute and wheelie bars! (just being a smartass) peace

john

2000xp8 · Oct 12, 2010

I agree, forget the rollbar.
Have you ever gotten in and out of a mustang with a proper cage?
It's a PITA, to have to do it daily would be a nightmare.

Global west sells a pretty killer set of subs with extra bracing, also Kenny Brown does super subs with jacking rails and matrix bars.
Both will cost way less than a good roll bar.

I use MM's and there really isn't any clearance issues, and for about a month my car was so extremely low until i got coil overs. If they didn't hit on my car then, they wont' ever hit on anyones car.
I would of used the global west's, but my frame rails had a little deformity to them from my younger wrenching years, and i wanted to fill the gaps with weld so it looked better.

Competition Subframe Connectors
I've seen alot of different ones on cars, but these were always the most impressive.

njoliver · Oct 13, 2010

imo first mod to a stang should be subframe connectors

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