rollbar/subframes install question

[VTStang66]

I have the TCP subframes for my '66 fb, and I think I'll go ahead and order the $150 8-point cage kit from Jeg's (if it looks like it sucks I'll send it back).

So when I'm installing these, is it OK to do it with the car on jackstands and the engine and transmission out? It seems like it should be OK, I just don't want to preload the chassis in some way that I shouldn't (or fail to preload it) and have it do something weird when I get it all back together sitting on the wheels.

 

[BullittStangV8]

I had my cage put in with the motor and trans in. Usually people put in sub frames with the car being dead level, and I believe with engine and tranny in..Im not positive about the tranny/engine part, but I know it is critical to have the car level, so if its on jacks, make sure everything is right.

 

[jason@gmachine]

well first things first, the cage kit you are talking about is not safe, its made from 1020 HREW and possibly 1012 HREW in some cases. This is the material used for the tubing and the strength of this is the absolute weakest of the three(4130, DOM, HREW). I do not use any of this material in any of our cage construction. The other reason i steer people away from those cages is because they take more time to get to fit right and welded in then if i were to custom make a cage. They never fit right and IMO always look like ass. I would say that most of the time i see the cages and they look like they will do more harm than good.


as for the engine/jack stand question.

the car is a 66' so that means that there are many years of stress on the uni-body and there will be sag near the firewall area. SO, to help with this you should jack up the rear and have the stands on the rear axle. Then jack up the front and put the stands right behind the firewall section so the engine and front suspension are in front of these stands. This will put weight on the chassis that will counteract the years of sag that time has produced. Leave the engine in and build as much as the cage as you can, then if you need to remove it to do some welding up front, it will be ok then to take the engine out and finish welding up the front.


Jason

 

[brianj5600]

I am suprised the NHRA allows such weak roll cages. They usually err on the side of safety.

 

[VTStang66]

well first things first, the cage kit you are talking about is not safe

Jason

Even for a street car? I like safety, but I'm not planning on putting this car into a wall at 150 or rolling it 10 times. I really just want something that will tie up the chassis.

You sound like you know what you're talking about and I appreciate your advice, but I have 2 problems with getting a cage built. One is money, I haven't heard a price but I'm guessing that getting someone like you to build me a cage would cost 5-10x as much as this one from jeg's (I'm sure it would be an awesome cage). The other is convenience; I'm just building a street car in my garage. I don't want to deal with the hassle of finding a shop and transporting the car, then waiting however long this takes to get it done.

I'm not a welding master, but I can lay a bead down and I like being able to point to the car and the cage and everything else and say I did that. You're probably right that the fit won't look anything like something you could build, but I might be willing to lower my standards somewhat if I could save a lot of money and build it myself. When people put the kits together and they look bad, is it the kit or the person putting it together?

Does anybody have any pictures of cages they've ordered in kit form and welded into their cars themselves?

Keep the advice coming.

 

[BullittStangV8]

all good points being made. I guess if your not looking for a cage ment to handle racing conditions, then a general kit may be best for you. Especially since money is an issue. I had my cage built to meet NHRA standards, and handle higher speeds. Obviously a well put together general cage is better then nothing. And IMO, I've built my own car in my garage, and its saved me allot of money, cost me allot of time, and I'm proud of my own work. I just didnt have the knowledge/skill to make a cage, so I sent it out to have a pro build it.


And a side note...even us with custom cages dont plan on hitting a wall at 150 or flipping it 10 times.. No one plans that.

 

[brianj5600]

The cage he is looking ar IS NHRA legal if installed correctly.

 

[garner67]

all good points being made. I guess if your not looking for a cage ment to handle racing conditions, then a general kit may be best for you. Especially since money is an issue. I had my cage built to meet NHRA standards, and handle higher speeds. Obviously a well put together general cage is better then nothing. And IMO, I've built my own car in my garage, and its saved me allot of money, cost me allot of time, and I'm proud of my own work. I just didnt have the knowledge/skill to make a cage, so I sent it out to have a pro build it.


And a side note...even us with custom cages dont plan on hitting a wall at 150 or flipping it 10 times.. No one plans that.

BullitStangV8, If you don't mind me asking, what did you spend on your roll cage?

 

[BullittStangV8]

Ahh I didnt know it was nhra legal. musta overlooked that.

garner I pm'd you.

 

[BullittStangV8]

and If it is NHRA legal...then I assume its safe for racing conditions too!

 

[jason@gmachine]

just because it passes "tech" does not make it safe. I have seen some really scary stuff be considered "race" legal.

Im not trying to bash on anyones cage work, it just that some break some serious basic design issues.

Jason

 

[VTStang66]

Well it looks like it will be a while before I do this since there are a lot of other things to be done and the engine should be in the car, so I guess I'll just keep my eyes open when I see roll cages and ask people how they got there. I feel like if it's a kit designed to fit in the car, and it's NHRA legal, and somebody with some sense (me) is putting it in, it ought not to fit that badly. But plenty of time to form a better opinion on that. Thanks all.

 

[jason@gmachine]

Well it looks like it will be a while before I do this since there are a lot of other things to be done and the engine should be in the car, so I guess I'll just keep my eyes open when I see roll cages and ask people how they got there. I feel like if it's a kit designed to fit in the car, and it's NHRA legal, and somebody with some sense (me) is putting it in, it ought not to fit that badly. But plenty of time to form a better opinion on that. Thanks all.

I rarely suggest that anyone build thier own cage, but with a kit and taking your time you will get it done. The best part is that when done you will be able to step back and say "I built that". Just be vary aware of your welding skill and make sure you are up to the level. Its all in practice, and everyone had to start somewhere.

My two main words of advice!

Keep it safe
Have Fun.



you do both of those and you will come out with a product that you will be very pleased with.



Jason