ROLLER ROCKER RECOMMENDATIONS

brianj5600 · May 1, 2007

HistoricMustang said:
A failure in the valve train can get very, very expensive.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

Are you suggesting that a street car with .510" lift hydraulic cam needs 7/16 studs? A stud girdle too? Or maybe a Jesel set up? They are the strongest.

HistoricMustang · May 1, 2007

brianj5600 said:
Are you suggesting that a street car with .510" lift hydraulic cam needs 7/16 studs? A stud girdle too? Or maybe a Jesel set up? They are the strongest.

When I converted my street car to a track car the 3/8" studs were bent and this was with a .480 lift. IMHO the other add-on stuff is not necessary for a street car but it does look cool and makes for great conversation.

Believe it or not the race car does not have stud girdles using a .525 lift. I have this thing about anything that retains heat in an engine being bad - IMHO girdles fall in that category.

Remember, in a small block Ford the secret is not cam lift. It took a couple of years at the track to get that figured out.

Again, just my opinion. I certainly do not want to have to go to anymore sensitivity classes.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

Jimmys66 · May 1, 2007

The cost of a set of ARP studs is $30. The price difference between 7/16 and 3/8 is $10. Seems like cheap insurance to me.

I've got $1600 wrapped up in my heads. I'm a cheap basterd. It took me 10 years to save for them. I spent the $40 to protect my investment.

The Harlands are $215 for 3/8 and $225 for 7/16 at Summit.

65fastbackresto · May 1, 2007

studs

My engine builder highly recomended the bigger studs for my 331.

fasttback · May 1, 2007

Broke a Manley 3/8 stud with a 0.512 lift and 252 @050 duration Isky cam. Could have been a defected one, but did not investigate. I only use 7/16 now...mild to wild motors.

Iamdiffrnt · May 2, 2007

It was my understanding that the Energizers were the same rockers that came on the last 5.0 Cobras from the factory. I haven't used them yet, but the ones I bought even have the ford part number cast into them.

D.Hearne · May 4, 2007

Iamdiffrnt said:
It was my understanding that the Energizers were the same rockers that came on the last 5.0 Cobras from the factory. I haven't used them yet, but the ones I bought even have the ford part number cast into them.

You are correct. Crane simply carried on with them as their Energizer line after the Ford contract was done.

bnickel · May 4, 2007

D.Hearne said:
You are correct. Crane simply carried on with them as their Energizer line after the Ford contract was done.

that's what i've been thinking about running on my next engine build, the cobra/energizer rockers for pedestal mount heads. this will be on a late model roller block with long rod conversion (400m rods), a mild comp extreme roller cam and possibly AFR 165 or GT40-P heads (depends on ho the budget holds out) should make for a decent engine that still get's excellent mileage on the street

D.Hearne · May 4, 2007

How are you going to do the 400 rods? Aren't the big ends bigger than the journals on the 302 crank? Seems to me, just using a set of lower end (costwise) aftermarket 5.4" rods would be the way to go for that. Plus you'd have a choice of off the shelf pistons instead of customs.

302 coupe · May 4, 2007

I thought the whole long rod theory had been debunked essentially.

bnickel · May 4, 2007

D.Hearne said:
How are you going to do the 400 rods? Aren't the big ends bigger than the journals on the 302 crank? Seems to me, just using a set of lower end (costwise) aftermarket 5.4" rods would be the way to go for that. Plus you'd have a choice of off the shelf pistons instead of customs.

not on a 302, a 351w. the rod journals are the same size for the 351w and 400/351m. as for piston choice, there are only a couple options for this combo, JE (forged) or Keith Black (hypereutectic)

i've seen a lot of good data on the long rod 351w that shows there is a significant hp/tq gain, especially under the curve. the BSFC numbers are really good also, so that means better fuel economy as well as just being plain more efficient. i'm not much of a stroker guy and this is the engine i've been wanting to build for about 15 years. i've got some other tricks i'm going to do as well, like backcutting the valves with a 20 degree angle, some home applied internal coatings and some other stuff as well. i'm expecting it be able to run on E85 fuel as well, just have to do some fuel system upgrades.

all of this will be on the next project once i get the stang sold so we can buy a house.

D.Hearne · May 4, 2007

Ah! I thought you were going to do a 302 for some reason. So you're basically going to have the rod/stroke ratio the 351M had, but without the heavy assed pistons. Maybe do a Clevor using a set of Aussie Cleveland heads? Now that would be a one-off motor.

bnickel · May 4, 2007

D.Hearne said:
Ah! I thought you were going to do a 302 for some reason. So you're basically going to have the rod/stroke ratio the 351M had, but without the heavy assed pistons. Maybe do a Clevor using a set of Aussie Cleveland heads? Now that would be a one-off motor.

yeah that's basically right, same rod/stroke ratio as the 351m. i'm not a big fan of putting clevie heads on 351w's, maybe if i was making a boss 302 clone i'd put a set on a 302 or better yet 331/347 stroker but i'm trying to make it look stock when you pop the hood.

Rusty67 · May 4, 2007

Since this thread has been officially hijacked... you think you could explain this little mix and match piston rod party ? This is rather interesting, to me at least.

bnickel · May 4, 2007

sorry didn't really mean to go off on a tangent here. the theory behind using a longer rod, in this case almost 3/4" longer, is that the pistons stays "parked" at TDC longer promoting more complete combustion of the air/fuel mix thereby increasing efficiency, in all aspects even emissons. fuel mileage is increased, power is increased and emissions are lowered. as an added benefit the engine's longevity is also increased because there is a lot less side loading of the pistons and cylinder walls. think of an inline six here, since the pistons travel near vertical for most of each combustion cycle the engine will last almost forever, same principle with the long rod conversion, though not to the same degree as an inline engine.

D.Hearne · May 4, 2007

And me, being a 30 year veteran of driving 18 wheelers, never gave it a thought as to why they all have(well probablby 99%) inline engines. The Kenworth I drive now will roll over it's millionth mile next Monday. And it's only been overhauled once. But it being a Detroit Diesel, upholds its reputation as an oil leaker. Everytime I wake up on the road after a 6-8 hour nap, there's a nice stream of oil and water leading away from it. (the water's from the A/C condensation)

brianj5600 · May 5, 2007

302 coupe said:
I thought the whole long rod theory had been debunked essentially.

Long rods do have a downside too. Pistons hang at the top and increase the chance for detonation. The main advantage comes when head flow is limited. Back in the days of poor flowing heads, a long rod allowed better cylinder filling, but with modern heads it is not needed for cylinder filling. I am curious about the piston/rod wieght vs stock type set up.

HistoricMustang · May 5, 2007

D.Hearne said:
And me, being a 30 year veteran of driving 18 wheelers, never gave it a thought as to why they all have(well probablby 99%) inline engines. The Kenworth I drive now will roll over it's millionth mile next Monday. And it's only been overhauled once. But it being a Detroit Diesel, upholds its reputation as an oil leaker. Everytime I wake up on the road after a 6-8 hour nap, there's a nice stream of oil and water leading away from it. (the water's from the A/C condensation)

"D", how in the world are you able to do that much driving and monitor Stagnet and put up over 7000 posts? You got one of them direct satellite up links and throw up tech while you are shifting gears?

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

D.Hearne · May 5, 2007

HistoricMustang said:
"D", how in the world are you able to do that much driving and monitor Stagnet and put up over 7000 posts? You got one of them direct satellite up links and throw up tech while you are shifting gears?

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

No computer in the truck. Ain't got time for one. This week,(monday) I delivered a load 120 miles east of where I live, backtracked to a point 50 miles south of the house, picked up that, delivered it to Aztec N.Mex. Wednesday morning. Reloaded wed. afternoon, delivered that in Ft. Worth TX the next day. Reloaded again that afternoon and was back home at midnight (thursday night) You can cover a lot of territory doing 75 mph and keeping the left door shut.

jikelly · May 6, 2007

HistoricMustang said:
Have used Harland Sharp for years with no issues at the track. Pay a few extra bucks!

http://store.summitracing.com/egnse...4294889096+4294839887+115+300684&autoview=sku

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

I ran a set of cheap Aluminum rockers on my 351w for a while (maybe 10,000 miles), no problems that I noticed. I think I payed 200 for the rockers with guide plates and studs. Cheap cheap cheap.

I want to move to some 1.7 ratio rockers and I'll probably give what I've got to my friend to use in his engine. I'll look at the rockers this afternoon and see if I can figure out what brand they are.

ROLLER ROCKER RECOMMENDATIONS

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