Sell and buy new or just keep it?

[xoxbxfx]

Im in a dillema right now. I have a 69 Grande Coupe with a 393 stroker and Art Carr AOD w/ 9" rear. I had some major major overhaul ideas of completely changing the combo but now Im considering selling and getting a 70 fastback. There is a local guy selling a 70 Mach1 (shell basically) and using it as my gueini pig for my new combo. If I sell the coupe, how much should I ask for it???

Here are the specs....
69 Grande Coupe

Engine:
393 stroker 445.8hp and 500.1ft/lbs (less than 500 miles)
Milodon Race pan w/ pickup
750dp Holley
Full MSD ignition
Aeromotive Carb Pump
8AN Fuel Lines
Aeromotive Filter
Aeromotive Regulator

Tranny:
Art Carr AOD
Art Carr Torque Converter
Prostick shifter
B&M Tranny Cooler

Rear End:
Fresh built 9"
Auburn Limited Slip
Richmond 3.89 Gears

Brakes:
All stock non power drums

Interior:
Deluxe 69 Black Interior (almost perfect)
Autometer Gauges
-5" Phantom Tach
-5" Phantom Electric Speedo
-2 5/8" Phantom Chebby Fuel gauge (due to fuel cell sender)
-2 5/8" Phantom H20 Temp
Mallory Gauges
- Oil Pressure
- Volts
- Vaccuum
Brand New floorpans

Cooling:
Afco Race Radiator
Flex a Lite Electric Fan

Suspenion:
Fresh Rebuilt front end
Eibach Progressive Rate Springs


Misc:
Fuel Cell
14x7 American Racing Wheels (new rear tires and full size spare)
1970 bolt in glass
Relocated Battery
Hooker Comp Headers
2 Chamber Flows
3" exhaust


Things it needs:
Radio
Speakers
Console (if you want to run one)
Export Brace

Extra Stuff:
69 Glue in glass
Stock A/C Equipment
Stock Radiator
Stock Shifter


Maybe some other stuff...the car has little bits of rust in the normal places... I have treated the most of it with Por 15. The engine bay might be shaved and repainted (haven't started but it was planned on) and I plan on getting teh car repainted (Maaco or somtheing similar) before it gets sold. Any suggestions on selling or price to ask? I have over $20,000 into the car and have the recipts for all the big things. I ahve recipts in atleast $13k in work and parts. Im really looking to build a showcar so I figure a FB is the way to go on that. The new drivetrain is going to be SICK.

Plans for new car:
5.4L DOHC motor
Navigator Heads
Twin Turbos (not sure of size yet)
TKO tranny (maybe T56 if they can handle the power)
Full 2002 GT wiring harness
Full 2002 GT interior
12pt Cage
Complete tube chassis
MII Front suspension w/ 2" Drop spindles
Ladder Bar Rear suspension
Built 9" w/ 33 spline axles
Mini-tubbed wheel wells
17x9 TTII's w/ 275 front tires
17x11 TTII's w/ 335 rear tires
16Gal Fuel Cell
Dual A1000 Pumps

My goal is for a new car running 900-1000hp (flywheel) on pump gas in an old stang. It will be a total weekend cruiser and show car...

 

[bnickel]

Im in a dillema right now. I have a 69 Grande Coupe with a 393 stroker and Art Carr AOD w/ 9" rear. I had some major major overhaul ideas of completely changing the combo but now Im considering selling and getting a 70 fastback. There is a local guy selling a 70 Mach1 (shell basically) and using it as my gueini pig for my new combo. If I sell the coupe, how much should I ask for it???

Here are the specs....
69 Grande Coupe

Engine:
393 stroker 445.8hp and 500.1ft/lbs (less than 500 miles)
Milodon Race pan w/ pickup
750dp Holley
Full MSD ignition
Aeromotive Carb Pump
8AN Fuel Lines
Aeromotive Filter
Aeromotive Regulator

Tranny:
Art Carr AOD
Art Carr Torque Converter
Prostick shifter
B&M Tranny Cooler

Rear End:
Fresh built 9"
Auburn Limited Slip
Richmond 3.89 Gears

Brakes:
All stock non power drums

Interior:
Deluxe 69 Black Interior (almost perfect)
Autometer Gauges
-5" Phantom Tach
-5" Phantom Electric Speedo
-2 5/8" Phantom Chebby Fuel gauge (due to fuel cell sender)
-2 5/8" Phantom H20 Temp
Mallory Gauges
- Oil Pressure
- Volts
- Vaccuum
Brand New floorpans

Cooling:
Afco Race Radiator
Flex a Lite Electric Fan

Suspenion:
Fresh Rebuilt front end
Eibach Progressive Rate Springs


Misc:
Fuel Cell
14x7 American Racing Wheels (new rear tires and full size spare)
1970 bolt in glass
Relocated Battery
Hooker Comp Headers
2 Chamber Flows
3" exhaust


Things it needs:
Radio
Speakers
Console (if you want to run one)
Export Brace

Extra Stuff:
69 Glue in glass
Stock A/C Equipment
Stock Radiator
Stock Shifter


Maybe some other stuff...the car has little bits of rust in the normal places... I have treated the most of it with Por 15. The engine bay might be shaved and repainted (haven't started but it was planned on) and I plan on getting teh car repainted (Maaco or somtheing similar) before it gets sold. Any suggestions on selling or price to ask? I have over $20,000 into the car and have the recipts for all the big things. I ahve recipts in atleast $13k in work and parts. Im really looking to build a showcar so I figure a FB is the way to go on that. The new drivetrain is going to be SICK.

Plans for new car:
5.4L DOHC motor
Navigator Heads
Twin Turbos (not sure of size yet)
TKO tranny (maybe T56 if they can handle the power)
Full 2002 GT wiring harness
Full 2002 GT interior
12pt Cage
Complete tube chassis
MII Front suspension w/ 2" Drop spindles
Ladder Bar Rear suspension
Built 9" w/ 33 spline axles
Mini-tubbed wheel wells
17x9 TTII's w/ 275 front tires
17x11 TTII's w/ 335 rear tires
16Gal Fuel Cell
Dual A1000 Pumps

My goal is for a new car running 900-1000hp (flywheel) on pump gas in an old stang. It will be a total weekend cruiser and show car...

personally dude i think you should finish the grande before you start yet another project. JMO, but if you keep setting yourself up to not complete this one, you may never finish any project you start. ask me how i know. i've been planning all kinds of stuff for the 69 GT since i got it in 1985 and it is still sitting without a whole lot having been done in the way of the resto, but at least it runs now and hopefully i will be able to drive it under it's own power in the next 2-3 months. you gotta learn to crawl before you learn to walk, if you know what i mean. the grande is a cool car and worthy of being finished, hell even as it sits it's ten times further along than mine. hang in there and get it finished then if you still want to build a fastback you can at least say "i made my grande in the baddest assed grande ever". and to be quite honest a really nice grande is a lot rarer than a dime a dozen mach 1, but then again JMO

 

[xoxbxfx]

personally dude i think you should finish the grande before you start yet another project. JMO, but if you keep setting yourself up to not complete this one, you may never finish any project you start. ask me how i know. i've been planning all kinds of stuff for the 69 GT since i got it in 1985 and it is still sitting without a whole lot having been done in the way of the resto, but at least it runs now and hopefully i will be able to drive it under it's own power in the next 2-3 months. you gotta learn to crawl before you learn to walk, if you know what i mean. the grande is a cool car and worthy of being finished, hell even as it sits it's ten times further along than mine. hang in there and get it finished then if you still want to build a fastback you can at least say "i made my grande in the baddest assed grande ever". and to be quite honest a really nice grande is a lot rarer than a dime a dozen mach 1, but then again JMO

I see where you are coming from. To be honest, if I throw the interior and motor back in (and the wiring harness) the car will be done. Its been done for a while, yet I want to make it better. Its the normal car mentality... Always something to do.

My new plan was for the grande (like you said have teh baddest grande) but I found a local 70 Mach1 Shell for $1k and still has a 9" and crappy front suspension. I figured it was a good deal and something that would be better to start with than a basically complete car and ripping it apart for good. If I use the Grande, I have to sell the interior, motor, tranny, rear end, suspension and anything else I have to get new. Heck, I might even be able to buy a buddy's race car (still a rolling chassis) for $2k but it already has a MII front, ladder bar rear and built rear end. I dunno... Im so confused.

 

[DarkBuddha]

I understand what you're going through... always looking to the future the biggest and brightest, etc... Its good to have goals and dreams to keep you moving forward and keep you motivated.

IMHO, if you've got the passion for the fastback and the Grande doesn't have the appeal it once did (weren't you considering selling it a while back too?), the maybe it is time to move on. This new project will certainly be expensive and time consuming, but if you've got the resources and time, I say go for it.

Just one more comment... and if it doesn't apply to you, then ignore the next few sentences... Be careful about building a car with "magazine potential"... this seems to be a general trend I'm seem to be noticing more often (maybe I should post a thread about it). I'm not saying its not a good thing, but I do want to warn about going holy grail chasing. The mods your talking about are very respectable and certainly very "now", but if you're looking at it from the magazine perspective, will it still be hot and edgy when you get the project done? Heck, car building innovation seems to happen so fast these days, its almost like computers... just when you get the hottest thing, something new and better is out. For example, the new Dodge Hemi is just out and there are already vintage Mopar project cars nearing completion sporting the new Hemi. And what about the new Ford V10??? I'm sure someones got that one in the works already too. Its just a matter of time and resources, and there seem to be plenty of folks that have both these days. Just a thought.

Whateve you decide, I think you should be able to get low to mid teens for the Grande from the right buyer... this will at least put a dent in that new project.

Good luck!

 

[66 BLAKE 96]

Not to burst your bubble Tim, but I think you need to reprioritize. You are still quite young and living with your parents. I’m not trying to belittle you in any way, because I’m not all that far from that situation myself. Its just that you have these gigantic, lofty goals, and the plans keep changing.

You also need to consider how your life might change around the project. What if you met a girl? What if you decided you might want to marry this girl some day? Is she going to be willing to live at your parents house indefinately while you put all your spare change into an old car? I may be going a little extreme here to prove a point, but the idea is that in this stage in your life, so much is going to change, that your priorities may be different. A classic Mustang show-worthy-resto-badass, a new GT, and a bike, all allot of toys for someone who doesn’t even have a house payment to make yet.

Again, not tying to be preachy, but it sounds to me like you might need to put these grand(é) plans on hold until you can make a life for yourself and work in your own garage.

FWIW, I’ve had my fastback a few more years than I’ve had my wife, and she knows I’m never selling. If I still lived the bachelor life, my 66 would be alot more impressive right now, but I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Just try and think big-picture. Thats all I’m trying to say.

 

[xoxbxfx]

Buddah - I love the grande still, it was my first car. I just see no sense in tearing apart a fully built car to redo everything. I agree with your trying to keep up with new innovations just doesnt work these days, but so far my plan has never been done. I have seen a couple 4.6 swaps, but never a 5.4 nor turbo'd 5.4 I would like to build the car for my self satisfaction and to have a hell of a street car. The costs really are not going to be that high... Here is a breakdown so far of what I came up with

Motor - $400 (everything I need accept new rotating assembly)
Machine work - $400
Rods/Pistons/Rings - $2000
Head work - $800
TKO w/ Clutch - $2000
MII front suspension $1500
Ladderbar setup - $1100
Roll Cage - $300
Frame Rails - $100
Turbos - $1500
Misc piping - $200
Misc Turbo stuff - $1000
Wheels/Tires - $2000
Front Brakes - $500

I plan on doing ALL of the work accept the motor assembly. I have a new welder and plan on doing the cage, frame rails, rear suspension, front suspension, turbo piping.... I already have the interior, wiring harness, and other small things like a 5spd pedal support. That list totals $13800 I know a plan never goes according to plan but just say $15k to basically build my car. If I can get $13 for my car that only a few thousand mroe to have one bad car.

 

[Fostang]

I say you part it out and sell me the engine .

I wouldn't mind going 393 efi on my project. As long as it's all 4340 forged I'd want it. Shipping wouldn't be too bad either.

Yeah I'd start from a clean slate.

 

[DarkBuddha]

Buddah - I love the grande still, it was my first car. I just see no sense in tearing apart a fully built car to redo everything. I agree with your trying to keep up with new innovations just doesnt work these days, but so far my plan has never been done. I have seen a couple 4.6 swaps, but never a 5.4 nor turbo'd 5.4 I would like to build the car for my self satisfaction and to have a hell of a street car. The costs really are not going to be that high... Here is a breakdown so far of what I came up with

Motor - $400 (everything I need accept new rotating assembly)
Machine work - $400
Rods/Pistons/Rings - $2000
Head work - $800
TKO w/ Clutch - $2000
MII front suspension $1500
Ladderbar setup - $1100
Roll Cage - $300
Frame Rails - $100
Turbos - $1500
Misc piping - $200
Misc Turbo stuff - $1000
Wheels/Tires - $2000
Front Brakes - $500

I plan on doing ALL of the work accept the motor assembly. I have a new welder and plan on doing the cage, frame rails, rear suspension, front suspension, turbo piping.... I already have the interior, wiring harness, and other small things like a 5spd pedal support. That list totals $13800 I know a plan never goes according to plan but just say $15k to basically build my car. If I can get $13 for my car that only a few thousand mroe to have one bad car.

XO, you know the rule... take your best estimate of what you think it will cost, then double it and you'll be closer to the reality. Even you said you've got over $20K in the Grande with only receipts for only $13k of it. Where'd the rest go? Think about it...

I'm not trying to disuade you, but you should be brutally realistic with yourself. Consider, based on your estimate above, the total cost of the entire engine setup will be $5900, and this includes the purchase of the motor, fuel injection system, engine management, turbos, piping, intercooler, exhaust, any necessary fab work, etc. Seems a bit on the shy side to me. Heck, I've seen that new performance cams are over $1000 a pair; and aren't there 2 cams per head? And $500 for front brakes? Aw, you know you'll want a nice set of 13" Baers.... and what about rear brakes? More Baer, right? Thats gotta be more like $2300 for brakes alone. You get my point...

Again, I actually love the sound of the project and agree that I too have yet to see it done exactly this way. There is no doubt that if you complete the project it will be a very unique and interesting ride. Do lots and lots of planning and pricing before making any decisions and you'll save tons of money. Then just be realistic and patient and you'll make it happen.

 

[xoxbxfx]

XO, you know the rule... take your best estimate of what you think it will cost, then double it and you'll be closer to the reality. Even you said you've got over $20K in the Grande with only receipts for only $13k of it. Where'd the rest go? Think about it...

I'm not trying to disuade you, but you should be brutally realistic with yourself. Consider, based on your estimate above, the total cost of the entire engine setup will be $5900, and this includes the purchase of the motor, fuel injection system, engine management, turbos, piping, intercooler, exhaust, any necessary fab work, etc. Seems a bit on the shy side to me. Heck, I've seen that new performance cams are over $1000 a pair; and aren't there 2 cams per head? And $500 for front brakes? Aw, you know you'll want a nice set of 13" Baers.... and what about rear brakes? More Baer, right? Thats gotta be more like $2300 for brakes alone. You get my point...

Again, I actually love the sound of the project and agree that I too have yet to see it done exactly this way. There is no doubt that if you complete the project it will be a very unique and interesting ride. Do lots and lots of planning and pricing before making any decisions and you'll save tons of money. Then just be realistic and patient and you'll make it happen.

Fostang - the motor is all forged accept the pistons.. They are KB flat tops. I was thinking of putting a 150 shot of spray on it back in the day but never did. Should hold up to 700hp is what the builder said.

Anyways, buddha - the motor is going to be cheap because my friend has a hookup for me at the junkyard. Im getting the motor and all the electronics and a 96 cobra computer for $400. And hes only paying $200 for it. I figure its still one hell of a hookup considering they cost $2000-2500 in a normal junkyard. Im using stock cams (maybe 03 cobras) in the heads so they are cheap. The crank is forged from stock so dont have to worry about that unless its destroyed. The rods, pistons and rings are teh main concern. I believe the pistons are $600 and teh rods are $700. It should not cost that much.

Brakes should be right around $500. I plan on using new cobra brakes. A kit for calipers and rotors are right around $450. I figure another $50 on hardware and a bracket I have to make. The rear end will be new from Currie w/ explorer brakes so it should be in the price of the rear end.. I have gone over numbers again and again. I really dont think its going to be much more than planned due to the fact Im doing all the work and my buddy's are hookin me up.

 

[syberjunkie]

I need better friends!!!

 

[DarkBuddha]

Yeah! Me too!

XO, it sounds like you've done a bit of homework, which makes me think you're probably ready to get rid of the Grande. I say go for it and take the plunge... You'll miss the Grande, but the new project sounds great so it should keep you motivated. Post pics...

 

[Fostang]

How would you plan on using the cobra brakes? Could you educate me on this since you would be using a M2 front and the spindles are not for non bearing attached rotors(liked the cobras).


Now the question is how much would you want for the motor? I would probably pop out the pistons and go with some dished forged ones. What kind of heads are it. I think we should handle this through pm if your really interested in selling just the motor.

 

[xoxbxfx]

Fostang - let me think about the motor...Im trying to decide what to do on the car still. Oh, I dunno about the brakes, I havent looked that far into it. I remember someone on here using 13" brakes and making a bracket. I dont think he posted finished pics but he was doing it. Worse comes to worse, I will jsut good ole Granada 11" setup till I can afford an SSBC kit or something.

My friends have the hookup everywhere it seems like. Plus the guys off DFWstangs are awesome. I have a friend that starting to build custom choppers so he has a plasma cutter as well as MIG and TIG welders. I think I will be doing a tubeframe at his shop Other friend has a hookup at a huge junkyard. His friend is the owner, and my parents good friend own a junkyard down in Houston that can hook me up. A guy on DFWstangs is going to build me a custom sheetmetal intake for the motor too. Dunno, just seems like things are sorta falling into place.

 

[SadbutTrue]

If you sell that car with that engine in it, you will lose a ton of money. I would say get a beater 351w and C4 to drop behind it, get run of the mill money for the car, then throw that new engine in the mach1. If you are really set on not using that engine, sell it seperately, piece by piece. It will make thousands of dollars in difference.

If you want to part with the 9", pm me

 

[akd67]

Not to burst your bubble Tim, but I think you need to reprioritize. You are still quite young and living with your parents. I’m not trying to belittle you in any way, because I’m not all that far from that situation myself. Its just that you have these gigantic, lofty goals, and the plans keep changing.

You also need to consider how your life might change around the project. What if you met a girl? What if you decided you might want to marry this girl some day? Is she going to be willing to live at your parents house indefinately while you put all your spare change into an old car? I may be going a little extreme here to prove a point, but the idea is that in this stage in your life, so much is going to change, that your priorities may be different. A classic Mustang show-worthy-resto-badass, a new GT, and a bike, all allot of toys for someone who doesn’t even have a house payment to make yet.

Again, not tying to be preachy, but it sounds to me like you might need to put these grand(é) plans on hold until you can make a life for yourself and work in your own garage.

FWIW, I’ve had my fastback a few more years than I’ve had my wife, and she knows I’m never selling. If I still lived the bachelor life, my 66 would be alot more impressive right now, but I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Just try and think big-picture. Thats all I’m trying to say.

This is the best advice Ive read in a long time.

The Grande sounds like a great car btw.

 

[Fostang]

I say go for it because like 66 Blake 96 pointed out once your with someone you won't be able to do it.

Same advice my parents give me."Don't go out getting any girls pregnant, and have fun, do the things you'd like to do, because when you get our age you won't, even though we said we'd go back and do these things we haven't and probably won't."

 

[66 BLAKE 96]

I say go for it because like 66 Blake 96 pointed out once your with someone you won't be able to do it.

Same advice my parents give me."Don't go out getting any girls pregnant, and have fun, do the things you'd like to do, because when you get our age you won't, even though we said we'd go back and do these things we haven't and probably won't."

OMG! Talk about misinterpretation.

Nowhere did I say that being married means you "won't be able to do" whatever it is you want with a hobby. Its just a question of timing. If I had fewer expenses and responsibilities, I'd have more resources to devote to my toy. That said, its not like I've given up my dreams just because I found a girl that was worth keeping. It'll just take a little longer, thats all. Someday I'll have a fuel injected, 5 speed custom-resto-modaganza of a 66 fastback. Just not yet. But I will have had a pretty nice house, my own garage and some damn good company in the mean time.

 

[DJs350H]

XO-I like your new idea, and I think you've already convinced yourself to do it because you've thought about almost every aspect of the project by now. I liked the idea about taking the engine out of your Grande and putting a beater in the car too--sonds better to sell seperate unless you find someone to appreciate the whole combo. The only thing I worry about is the Mach. You say it is basically a shell? Is is mostly complete or what?

I've always heard that shells are the worst cars to buy because they are missing the most parts. By the time you buy all the missing parts you'll have spent way more than if you'd bought a more complete car. Sounds like you have the parts hookup, bu I'm just saying beware the "cheap buy" sticker price, because in the end it will probably nickle and dime you the most. Heck you might end up having to buy a whole other car to get all the parts. It is all those little parts (especially for detailing and show appearances) that I never realized I needed early on when I thought of my enginebay project that have really made the adventure expensive.

Good Luck,
DJ

 

[Pakrat]

Yeah, I was inclined to agree with Blake before I even read his post and he seems to know you way better than I do, but seeing how you have rebutled every single reply that says don't do it, I am having a real hard time understanding where your so called "dilema" or "confusion" is? It's pretty obvious to me that your mind is completely made up. If you can afford to take a bath on a $20,000 investment and jump into another one that could end up being $30,000 in reality, than I say go for it. I have no idea what it is like to live such a care free life or be made of money so who am I to say what is right or wrong. (BTW the money you stand to lose on the Grande would just about buy a halfway decent engagment ring for the right young lady.)

All I can say is that it feels like since I have been here you have been building this grande and I don't remember it seeing any real road time yet at any stage that I know of. Now you have already set your sights higher, and so I have a hard time selling myself the idea that you will ever get to the stage of enjoying the Mach before you find yourself in the same exact situation all over again. From my own experience I can say it took me another 16 years to finally own the car I wanted when I was 16, but I was veruy level headed and living on my own right out of high school with expenses and saving for a future and I'm proud to say that today I own just about all my heart desires and I mean own, shy of the house and new car payment, I am debt free and the prom and fleeting summer fun are way behind me now in the dark distance, but the future is still ahead and looking brighter than ever. Next stage in my life is Shelby ownership and it gets closer every day.

 

[xoxbxfx]

yeah, I have made up my mind that Im going ahead with my new plans on a car, whether its the grande or a mach. The mach that I was looking at got sold yesterday anyways. Also a local guy is looking at buying the full interior out of the 69 so the grande might be getting an overhaul. I just need to sell the motor and tranny and I will have some cash towards the new goal.