Serpentine set-up

thekid760 · Nov 4, 2008

I know this has been a bunch of times, but I still have some questions and need a little clarification.

I'm in the process of building a roller 331 28oz 4-bolt engine for my Mustang.

This is my To-Buy lisy so far:

1) Alternator bracket/manual tensioner & PS bracket:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD...yZ140681QQihZ004QQitemZ140119471050QQtcZphoto

2) Fox Body Underdrive pullies:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Part...rms=39:1|65:10|240:1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

3) Reverse rotation Hi-Volume aluminum Water Pump

4) New Radiator Hoses, something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/48-B...ryZ34204QQihZ004QQitemZ140119470599QQtcZphoto

5) I have a fox body Timing cover already installed in the engine. I read that it can be drilled out to accept an in the block dip stick.

6) Serpentine belt to fit.

Questions:
-will my #1 work with my current stock power steering, or only with fox body pumps?
-How is the belt routed w/o AC, I assume i need and idler for the driver side upper?
-Can a hole be drilled in my timing cover to accept a dipstick?
-Any thing I'm missing and need?

Thanks for all your help!

:SNSign:

D.Hearne · Nov 5, 2008

You can drill the dipstick hole in any of the timing covers. Can't answer the other two.

Tim65GT · Nov 5, 2008

I just did a serp swap, but I have AC and no PS. It looks like the items you picked will work, but I can't say about how the PS will mount up.
What alternator are you using? I wasn't able to use the Alt pulley in the Fox kit on my 3G. I had to modify my AC bracket to line up correctly and I added the tensioner later.
What about fuel pump? If you are running a mech, clearance near the PS pump could be an issue.

thekid760 · Nov 5, 2008

I will be using an edelbrock #1725 mechanical fuel pump.
No AC, and planning on using a 3G alternator. Sounds like I'll probably be needing a tensioner?

Tim65GT · Nov 5, 2008

thekid760
Sounds like I'll probably be needing a tensioner?

Not necessarily. I added it because I upgraded to a 160Amp 3G and when the AC was on, the belt was flopping around more than I liked. I could see the belt was slipping from small bits of black rubber on the front of the Alt case. Since I added it though, no sign of slippage and no flopping.

thekid760 · Nov 5, 2008

are the late model fox body power steering pumps smaller? Or do you know of any that are and will bolt up? Not too worries about hose connections, I can make that work.

D.Hearne · Nov 5, 2008

thekid760 said:
I will be using an edelbrock #1725 mechanical fuel pump.
No AC, and planning on using a 3G alternator. Sounds like I'll probably be needing a tensioner?

Does your timing cover have the fuel pump boss ? The 86-up Fox covers don't.

Rusty67 · Nov 5, 2008

Just use a Fox Mustang PS pump and it will work with the bracket just fine. Only extra thing you will need will be a double male brass fiting for the presure line. Last time I bought one it cost me 90 cents.

You will need a PS pump relocation kit like this one to deal with the no AC issue:
Ford Racing M-8511-A50 - Ford Racing Air Conditioning Eliminator Kits - summitracing.com

thekid760 · Nov 8, 2008

D.Hearne said:
Does your timing cover have the fuel pump boss ? The 86-up Fox covers don't.

Your right, I just checked and realized that. I already have the pump so I'd like to make that work with the serpentine if possible.

What timing cover can be used that works with reverse rotation WP and mechanical fuel pump?

D.Hearne · Nov 8, 2008

thekid760 said:
Your right, I just checked and realized that. I already have the pump so I'd like to make that work with the serpentine if possible.

What timing cover can be used that works with reverse rotation WP and mechanical fuel pump?

Which reverse pump do you have ? They're not all the same. Ford made at least 4 different reverse rotation water pumps. The first was the 79-85 Stang/Capri pump, this one fits the 70-85 std rotation timing covers and the 86-91 Crown Vic/Town Car/Marquis timing cover (also std rot.) Then there's the 86-97 Mustang/pickup/Van pump, these have reversed coolant ports that fit a matching timing cover with reversed ports. Then there's the 88-93 T-Bird/Cougar/94-95 Stang pump. Then the 96-2001 Explorer/Mountaineer pump. These last pumps fit the same cover which is completely different from the earlier covers in regard to the pump flange design. Only the 79-85 Stang pump will work with a timing cover that's got a fuel pump boss.

thekid760 · Nov 8, 2008

I dont have a H2O pump yet, but planned on buying a reverse rotation for the fox body.

Something like this:
Summit SUM-313004 - Summit® Mechanical Water Pumps - summitracing.com

So to clarify, in order to use fox body pulleys and brackets with my mechanical fuel pump, I need a 79-85 timing cover and reverse rotation WP?

Such as this 85' reverse rotation pump:
http://store.summitracing.com/partd...903575+4294925023+4294903553+115&autoview=sku

D.Hearne · Nov 8, 2008

Yea but you've got to use the 79-85 Mustang waterpump. It's the only reverse rotation pump that fits the std rotation timing covers. Ford "revised" both the timing cover and pump in 86 to improve the circulation, this revision was the reversal of the coolant ports in the timing cover. The pumps for this cover will bolt onto the older covers, but the gasket flanges do not line up with the ports. Go to my photbucket site, I have pics of both covers I think on page two baddad457 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting you can see with both covers side by side what Ford did in this revision.

thekid760 · Nov 8, 2008

Do you happen to know the part number for that timing cover? And could you reccomend any quality hi-volume h2o pumps for it? Does the flow kooler 1655 posted above work?

Sorry for so many questions, there seems to be so many variants to this set-up that it can be overwhelming. Thanks for all your input.

D.Hearne · Nov 9, 2008

The pump you linked to fits the 86-93's. You need a 79-85 pump if you want to go with a serpentine system and a mechanical fuel pump. I'm not a fan of expensive aftermarket pumps when you can get the same level of performance at your local parts house. Here are three choices available from Advance Auto Parts: All are Cardone branded pumps, 58348 which is a high volume rebuilt pump for $30. The 58230 is a rebuilt std volume for $29. And 5523150H is a new heavy duty std volume pump for $62. These are all listed for a 79-85 Mustang GT with a carb. The rebuilt high volume is the one I'd pick with a reverse rotation pump on the earlier timing cover, it needs all the help it can get, based on Ford's decision to revise the setup in 1986 to improve the flow. The HV pump has a larger (by about 1 inch) impeller with 8 vanes vs the std volume pump with 6 vanes

tx65coupe · Nov 12, 2008

Tim65GT said:
I just did a serp swap, but I have AC and no PS. It looks like the items you picked will work, but I can't say about how the PS will mount up.
What alternator are you using? I wasn't able to use the Alt pulley in the Fox kit on my 3G. I had to modify my AC bracket to line up correctly and I added the tensioner later.
What about fuel pump? If you are running a mech, clearance near the PS pump could be an issue.

I am going to install a serpentine belt setup on my 65 with 302 when the car is closer to running. I don't have an engine yet. My car has AC with modern compressor and no power steering.

What serp setup did you use and where did you get it? Is it just off of a Fox body 5.0 or is it a new kit? I like how it looks, clean and simple.

I don't want a March setup or any billet stuff. I need one that doesn't break the bank either.

Tim65GT · Nov 12, 2008

tx65coupe:
I am going to install a serpentine belt setup on my 65 with 302 when the car is closer to running. I don't have an engine yet. My car has AC with modern compressor and no power steering.

What serp setup did you use and where did you get it? Is it just off of a Fox body 5.0 or is it a new kit? I like how it looks, clean and simple.

I don't want a March setup or any billet stuff. I need one that doesn't break the bank either.

I have the Vintage air system which originaly came set up for v-belt system, but I was able to modify the bracket to fit the rev rotation pump. Since then, I've upgraded to a new 160 Amp 3G with a 2" pulley (holds 90 amps at idle) and added a tensioner w/bracket.

Hereis a link to the thread when I was doing it.

Serpentine set-up

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