Should go 4v or stay 2v?

hotstang_46 · Mar 13, 2011

Ok, so....... when I get my brakes and body mods done within the next month or so I think I'm going to turn back to some power stuff. My goal is probably going to be around 650 to 700 rwhp. I think any more than that is useless on the street. But more importantly I want some grunt. Jumping out my 408ci c5 vette just makes this car feel like a dog waiting for the power to come on. I just want power eveywhere, just not up top. I'm not familair with turbo set ups, not sure what it would drive like (and if they'd make tons of instant tq down low). But just going off of what I've read a PD seems to be the way to go to accomplish that. (only thing I don't like about the PD is I don't think it sounds as good at idle as my centri. I don't even think I've ever heard a big KB or anything, but on you tube it doesn't even seem like they make noise )

so here is the question. I've already invested some money into the parts I have. Patriot heads, Vt stge II's, etc etc. To do 4v I know I'd have to re purchase all those parts. So I'd prefer to stay with what I have, maybe buy a cobra shortblock and purchase the New Tork Tech TVR 1900 kit or a big KB. Is 650 to 700 with gobs of tq possible while staying 2v? I'm just begining doing research so any advice would helpful.

LarsD · Mar 13, 2011

As the owner of an N/A 4V that wants a PD S/C. I say stick with your 2V setup and go with the Tork Teck kit. It seems like the options for a PD blower on a 4V are pretty limited. Either a Kenne Bell kit, or a piece meal off a wrecked 03/04.

hotstang_46 · Mar 13, 2011

If I went 4v I'd 99% do a big whipple. And I know it would be a "cool" set up capable of the power I want. I'd just rather do a 2v if I can attain my stated goal on pump gas with meth.

crazystang25 · Mar 13, 2011

Well I know in person KB's have a nice wine to them.

hotstang_46 · Mar 13, 2011

crazystang25 said:
Well I know in person KB's have a nice wine to them.

not to get side tracked......but a whine at idle or the tell tale whine when on the go pedal? Do pretty much all the PD's, whipple, KB, TVS all sound about the same?

JymboSlice · Mar 13, 2011

Stay 2v and go with a big kenne bell. If you wanted you could sell your patriot heads/VT cams and get trick flow heads and a set of rougher cams?

hotstang_46 · Mar 13, 2011

the more i look the more doubt I'm having with a 2v. The only big hp numbers over the 650 mark I've found have been turbo or centri cars. I've been trying to just search the heck out of all the stang forums.

(granted I havent' seen numbers with tvs 1900)

A turbo car simply wouldn't have the instant tourque at say 2500rpms like a roots would right? either single or dual turbo?

ItsStock02 · Mar 13, 2011

There was the one guy on here who had a 2.8 KB 2v. I think he made around 700whp. I know it was up there. Or if you have the money I would do a big bore 2v, 9.5:1 compression (maybe 10:1 if you use meth), tork tech manifold with a Whipple or KB. That should get you in your 650-700whp range.

This is a little snip from an article Alternative Auto wrote regarding a similar build but 4v.

Just to give an idea of the power potential of the new 5.3L BigBore-Stroker we’re starting to offer. We’ve got a customer’s 2004 Marauder equipped with one of these new motors with no major head porting on the stock 32V heads, and some mild Crower cams. Topped off with an intercooled Trilogy 2.3L twin screw blower, making only 13psi of boost from about 4800rpm and up. Burning only 93 octane fuel, and going through the Marauder’s automatic trans and powertrain… this car produces a touch under 580hp at the rear wheels, with what I feel is a moderately conservative tune with both the A/F and spark. This car has a seriously long and wide torque band. Not to shabby for only 13psi and 93 octane going through an auto trans! The old saying “No Replacement For Displacement” still holds true with me. Especially in street cars that are looking for more grunt from street light to street light.

sneaky98gt · Mar 14, 2011

Yea, there was a member who used to post with a high horsepower 2 valve. Don't exactly remember his name, something like laserred02, and don't at all remember his setup.

SteedaGT9150 · Mar 14, 2011

sneaky98gt said:
Yea, there was a member who used to post with a high horsepower 2 valve. Don't exactly remember his name, something like laserred02, and don't at all remember his setup.

had a 2v gt and a cobra, i believe his 2v had more power than the cobra iirc. He sold both of them for a vette i think.

RedDaemon · Mar 14, 2011

SteedaGT9150 said:
had a 2v gt and a cobra, i believe his 2v had more power than the cobra iirc. He sold both of them for a vette i think.

+1. sounds about right to me

twogts4us · Mar 14, 2011

Either one can make good power - and since you've already invested in the pricey heads, I'd stay with those and go with the PD blower. And as far as big HP #s and torque down low, the former is just a bragging tool, while the latter is what is fun, especially on the street.

superstang01 · Mar 14, 2011

SteedaGT9150 said:
had a 2v gt and a cobra, i believe his 2v had more power than the cobra iirc. He sold both of them for a vette i think.

he sold them both and i saw that he has a 2010 or 2011 with a big whipple on it

he posted it on svtp

Dark04GT · Mar 14, 2011

hotstang_46 said:
the more i look the more doubt I'm having with a 2v. The only big hp numbers over the 650 mark I've found have been turbo or centri cars. I've been trying to just search the heck out of all the stang forums.

(granted I havent' seen numbers with tvs 1900)

A turbo car simply wouldn't have the instant tourque at say 2500rpms like a roots would right? either single or dual turbo?

A turbo kit will give you the most power per psi. It won't feel "instant" but you will definitely be generating gains all throughout the powerband. Honestly a turbo kit would be a good choice for the big numbers you want. Everyone is always scared of turbo lag but if you buy the upgraded turbo option with ball bearings you are looking at a well working system with minimal time for build up. But... if instant on is your requirement than go for the 2.6L KB- it will put you right in the range you want.

'99-'04 Mustang 4.6 2V 2.6L Competition Supercharger

It is able to handle 24lbs of boost. KB also claims that a ported/cammed 2V will put out more HP than a 4V at the same boost level- claiming 682hp for the 2V vs. 652hp for the 4v, both @20psi.

From your mods, your past threads, and this current thread I know you are not scared to spend money but I think you will be wasting money with the 4V conversion. When you are looking at high boost levels you will spend lots of time and effort converting when the 2v is already plenty capable and a couple members have 2v's with 650rwhp+. The rest of us don't because we are poor.

Here is a list of stuff you would need (straight from their website):
• 2.6L kit with 1" longer Twin Screw and '03 Cobra Inlet Manifold.
• Cobra R hood or equivalent
• '03 Cobra dual pumps and gas tank w/Kenne Bell BOOST-A-PUMP™.
• Dual fuel lines (another 1/4" line for HP levels above 650).
• 60+lb injectors
• 8 rib pulley and belt system
• Cobra throttle body and inlet tube (included in 2.6L kit).
• Electric water pump (8.5" crank pulley only). 7.5" OK with 5" water pump pulley. 4" loses 19HP.
• Forged rods and 8-8.5 pistons.

If you want to maximize everything you got right now I would look at switching out your heads. The patriots are better than stock but a set of ported 44cc trickflow wedge heads would give you some better gains.

*disclaimer- don't work for KB but I have done plenty of research into their stuff and I'm just trying to pass on somethings, hopefully I said something helpful.

hotstang_46 · Mar 15, 2011

Dark04GT said:
A turbo kit will give you the most power per psi. It won't feel "instant" but you will definitely be generating gains all throughout the powerband. Honestly a turbo kit would be a good choice for the big numbers you want. Everyone is always scared of turbo lag but if you buy the upgraded turbo option with ball bearings you are looking at a well working system with minimal time for build up. But... if instant on is your requirement than go for the 2.6L KB- it will put you right in the range you want.

'99-'04 Mustang 4.6 2V 2.6L Competition Supercharger

It is able to handle 24lbs of boost. KB also claims that a ported/cammed 2V will put out more HP than a 4V at the same boost level- claiming 682hp for the 2V vs. 652hp for the 4v, both @20psi.

From your mods, your past threads, and this current thread I know you are not scared to spend money but I think you will be wasting money with the 4V conversion. When you are looking at high boost levels you will spend lots of time and effort converting when the 2v is already plenty capable and a couple members have 2v's with 650rwhp+. The rest of us don't because we are poor.

Here is a list of stuff you would need (straight from their website):
• 2.6L kit with 1" longer Twin Screw and '03 Cobra Inlet Manifold.
• Cobra R hood or equivalent
• '03 Cobra dual pumps and gas tank w/Kenne Bell BOOST-A-PUMP™.
• Dual fuel lines (another 1/4" line for HP levels above 650).
• 60+lb injectors
• 8 rib pulley and belt system
• Cobra throttle body and inlet tube (included in 2.6L kit).
• Electric water pump (8.5" crank pulley only). 7.5" OK with 5" water pump pulley. 4" loses 19HP.
• Forged rods and 8-8.5 pistons.

If you want to maximize everything you got right now I would look at switching out your heads. The patriots are better than stock but a set of ported 44cc trickflow wedge heads would give you some better gains.

*disclaimer- don't work for KB but I have done plenty of research into their stuff and I'm just trying to pass on somethings, hopefully I said something helpful.

Heck ya that's helpful. Thank you for the input. I think staying 2v and looking at my target power range I'm really maxing out what a PD blower set up is capable of doing. I'm going to give the guys at KB and Tork Tech a call about their set ups and see what they think.

I hear what you're saying on the patriot heads too. However one of the draws of staying 2v is keeping what I have and saving the coin vs the 4v. The upgrade to the trick flow would be costly and put me into the $$ range where I'd just think about doing 4V. So if I didn the 2v I'd pretty much stay with what I have and try to max out the set up.

On a side note....I have found a set up that intrigue's me. It isn't really cost efficient but it is cool as heck and different than anything I've seen before. I'm going to call these guys and ask about this too. I think being that I'll own this car for the rest of my life it may be worth it for me to go all out. We'll see. I think I would if I heard what this sounds like from the cabin when I punch it. a roots and twins...jeesh http://www.lethalperformance.com/03...03-04-cobra-hellraiser-twin-turbo-kit-p-24971

I'm thinking out loud here.....Maybe add a tork tech 03-04 blower kit to my car with the cobra blower and then add this. Stay 2v and make some big power... hhmmmmmm

AntiRice98 · Mar 15, 2011

Being someone who recently went from a 2 valve to a 4 valve I would say go with 4 valve. It's an incredible difference. The torque curve on those motors is insane. Mine puts out 487 rwhp and 484 tq with a ported eaton and the torque is over 400 to the wheels at just 2000 RPM's. I was a die hard 2 valve fan till I started driving a 4 valve.

hotstang_46 · Mar 15, 2011

AntiRice98 said:
Being someone who recently went from a 2 valve to a 4 valve I would say go with 4 valve. It's an incredible difference. The torque curve on those motors is insane. Mine puts out 487 rwhp and 484 tq with a ported eaton and the torque is over 400 to the wheels at just 2000 RPM's. I was a die hard 2 valve fan till I started driving a 4 valve.

I hear what your saying. But I think that tq is more a function of the PD blower you have on that car. A PD 2v would be making nice tq too.

slayerripkdc · Mar 15, 2011

HELLRAISER KIT!!!! Do it, do it, do it, and take lots of pics!!!!!

04GTMustang · Mar 18, 2011

sneaky98gt said:
Yea, there was a member who used to post with a high horsepower 2 valve. Don't exactly remember his name, something like laserred02, and don't at all remember his setup.

it was 02laserredGT or something like that I believe you can find him on youtube with his videos. its a 2.6KB with heads and cams stock bore and I believe last I saw he was like like the 630 range but he may have made more with 20psi. Look on youtube and you should find his stang.

Dark04GT · Mar 18, 2011

AntiRice98 said:
Being someone who recently went from a 2 valve to a 4 valve I would say go with 4 valve. It's an incredible difference. The torque curve on those motors is insane. Mine puts out 487 rwhp and 484 tq with a ported eaton and the torque is over 400 to the wheels at just 2000 RPM's. I was a die hard 2 valve fan till I started driving a 4 valve.

The 2v=>4v swap requires a significant number of changes of small items such as cooling system, ignition system, computer, intake, etc. The difference between a heads/cams 2v and a 4v is marginal. Especially when you start adding on boost.

Should go 4v or stay 2v?

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