Should I believe this guy?

[68converted]

I had a friend stop by and he told me that I did not need a Chip/tune with the setup I have??? The car is not running too bad, but it is putting out enough gas fumes to make your eyes water if it runs too long in the garage. He is an ASE Ford mechanic... What do you think?

Here is the setup: 73mm Meter (C&L-not changing it out, no mater how much grief I get), 70mm TB Edlebrock, ported Explorer intake, AFR 165 heads, 1.6 RR's, Comp Cams XE270 HR, stock bottom end, shorty headers 2.5" exhaust, H-Pipe, Dynomax Super turbo's

Every single person I have talked to on this thread and others that have helped on the project say yes I do.

The idle seems to wander a little, I have really good throtle response, awesome power (could always be better right), and it runs so cool that the fan only comes on after it is pulled back into the garage after a "quick" test drive. LOL

Just stinks pretty bad...

 

[Foxfan88]

you can tune out all the idle surging and richness issues at idle. fix any drivebility problems. but with the mod you have, i wouldnt expect too much of a WOT power gain with a tune.

just got to ask yourself, do you feel its worth 500 ish dollars to fix whatever problems you have??

also think if your going to add a SC or something later on, if so i would wait and do it then.

 

[68converted]

Thanks Foxfan88- I guess I just don't want to smell it after all the money I put into building it. (of course now the budget is gone, or at least expanded until next spring. LOL)

Oh, I forgot to add that I still have to add the eliminator kit for the smog, TAB/TAD.

Also,would a bad EGR cause any of this? Because I noticed that the little diaphram in it was kind of pushed out and off to the side. (I pushed back in, but when I started the car again, I noticed that it was kind of popped out again??)

 

[Mustang5L5]

Yiu should have codes for the bad EGR


Even if it was running great, i would recommend a custom dyno tune. It really is the best way to get a safe setup and get every bit of possible power out of the car.

if you are running pig rich though, you may have some other underlying issues.

 

[2000xp8]

I know you are not changing the meter, but you do realize that the Maf meters air and helps control the mixture right? Not trying to give you grief, just realize, one of the main pieces of the puzzle you use, is a pos.

If you were to take the car to my friends shop to get a chip done, he would send you home or make you purchase a better meter before he even attempted to tune it. I think you'll find that none of the better shops want anything to do with a C&L.

That combo should not need a chip anyway, far wilder setups run fine without a program.

 

[Badloser]

With all those good parts I think you will be very happy with a good dyno tune. Throttle response I know you said is good but it will be even better after you tune it. Also running too rich is not good for the motor in my opinion. I am going to guess a 10% HP increase with a good tuner at the controls..

 

[68converted]

I know you are not changing the meter, but you do realize that the Maf meters air and helps control the mixture right? Not trying to give you grief, just realize, one of the main pieces of the puzzle you use, is a pos.

If you were to take the car to my friends shop to get a chip done, he would send you home or make you purchase a better meter before he even attempted to tune it. I think you'll find that none of the better shops want anything to do with a C&L.

That combo should not need a chip anyway, far wilder setups run fine without a program.

I just knew you would chime in. LOL I do appreciate the opinion

Well, I just ordered a new EGR, ovalized tail pipes, and an MSD box from my website, along with some other small parts. Gotta get those jumpers (diodes I think for the TAB/TAD and smog - saw a post on that some time ago) I'll see if the little things can help first. I guess I have thru the winter to mess with it before a tune. I will post an audio clip on Saturday; ears can tell a lot.

 

[2000xp8]

. I am going to guess a 10% HP increase with a good tuner at the controls..

That number is pretty far off.
A car running a fox computer that is assembled correctly with the correct parts, will see almost no gain, if there is a gain, there is something wrong.
Some people claim driveability is better, that's somewhat believeable, just remember the fox computer is not restrictive, it will pretty much adapt to damn near anything, including rear wheel numbers well above 600rwhp.

 

[68converted]

200xp8 - "just remember the fox computer is not restrictive, it will pretty much adapt to damn near anything, including rear wheel numbers well above 600rwhp. "

I guess I have always been the type to watch what people do rather than listen to the garbage that flows out of their mouths to suite a specific conversation. I will assume that your ride is pushing well above 600rwhp, as you seem to be pretty fond of your friends tune shop, and you have "tuned" your ride a few times?? (I know your M.O. so I expect you to continue to add your two cents, please don't take offense as I won't be responding to you again. Dude, the dead horse thing... let it go. Jamming your opinion down peoples throats about your favorite meter is not helpful to anyone. I seriously don't care what meter you have, SERIOUSLY!)

Now, back to the topic. I have been reading a ton of info on the Tweecer and there are quite a few parameters that one is able to adjust; though I am not able to find "reliable" info on what "A9" series of EEC's are capable of adapting too.

I suppose what I would want to make sure of, is the computer is not working to bring the new addition's performance capabilities back to the programmed baseline. Without a tune, what is it in the programming that allows the flexability to change/adapt?

 

[vristang]

The Adaptive Strategy takes feedback from the O2 sensors regarding the AFR, and institutes a
'Correction Factor' (called the KAMRF) to the injector pulsewidth. The Adaptive Strategy in the A9*'s has a range of 25%... +/- 12.5%
Once you get out of that range, things get hoky.

Factory ecu's can adapt/tune to anything that baselines within this range (for the most part).
Boost and Nitrous is a little trickier, but there are plenty of guys running TwEECer and Moates chips. (I've only done n/a myself)

I used a tweecer to tune my 408w, and it worked great. Took a while to learn, but it is a very good tool.
$550 for the tweecer
$200 for a WB O2 sensor

 

[2000xp8]

200xp8 - "just remember the fox computer is not restrictive, it will pretty much adapt to damn near anything, including rear wheel numbers well above 600rwhp. "

I guess I have always been the type to watch what people do rather than listen to the garbage that flows out of their mouths to suite a specific conversation.

I too like to watch what people do, the difference between us, is i do it in person, and you do it on the internet.
I also never said pro m is the only to use, i said C&L is the only meter not to use.
Good luck and i'll leave you be as requested.

 

[57fairlane]

on stuff I have tuned with a PMS with bolt-ons like that motor, I have seen 8-12rwhp.

Usually just fuel "divots" to fix and added timing.