Since Classic Tech is Striking Out . . .

D Durden

DEEP FAT FRY
Founding Member
Mar 9, 2000
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I fink I'll repost this here . . .

Any of you guys have any experience with a Flex-a-lite product called the Flex-a-lite 51160R.

It's a fan/aluminum cross-flow radiator combo that looks promising. I need something better to keep my 409 stroker cool with, and I'm hoping this is it.

Do you guys have any suggestions or opinions on this? Know of something better?
 
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I've had issues with fans... MAJOR issues. But if I could get it working right, my taurus fan really blows. Right now I can't get a control module that won't burn out so it sucks.

Seriously though, hold on and I'll find a thread when I get back in a few. You may want to search 5.0 Talk for "Taurus Fan".
 
I can't help with radiators...but as for fans, there isn't a single fan on the market that puts out the air flow that the Lincoln Mark VIII fan does, and the only other electric fan i've ever heard of that was more powerful was a Dodge Viper fan...good luck finding one of those. If space is really tight between the radiator and water pump, another good option is to run a twin fan setup off of a V6 Contour/Mystique.
 
I can't help with radiators...but as for fans, there isn't a single fan on the market that puts out the air flow that the Lincoln Mark VIII fan does, and the only other electric fan i've ever heard of that was more powerful was a Dodge Viper fan...good luck finding one of those. If space is really tight between the radiator and water pump, another good option is to run a twin fan setup off of a V6 Contour/Mystique.

+1 on the Lincoln fan, 2 speeds and they move some air. The link I had on the how to is dead, but if you want to go that way let me know and I'll do a write up for you.
 
The unit I mentioned has a fan mounted to it with a shroud built for the setup. I like the look of it and that it's built around a system and not a piece part setup.

My cooling issues REALLY date back to 1994. I've just lived around them. I know this is going to get long, but this is pretty funny. If you want to read it, feel free . . .

I have a 409 stroker motor. She dyno's 500 hp all day long and twice on Sundays. It's a solid lifter motor built by a pro . . . and boy did I pay for it. Regardless, the engine is all that and a bag of chips.

I put the motor in sometime in the fall of 1994. The previous 351W NEVER had temperature issues. I ran a stock puller fan and a "baja buster" 4 core copper radiator. It was purchased in the 80's back when that was the grand lady of radiators. :)

So, the motor had NO ISSUES AT ALL . . . for months . . . until temps got up into the 70's. Then I noticed that sitting she'd heat up. So, after some investigation, I found that a company called Hot Rod Air made a custom built electric fan with shroud. Purfect, I thought. It even has baffles that open up when you're driving down the road to flow more air on the run. Wow!

TO THEIR CREDIT, the fan did the trick. I could let the car sit all day long at 90 degrees, and the temp stayed at 180. On the down side, if you drove more than 2 minutes over 20 mph, the engine got hot i.e. not enough air could flow through the shroud.

Hot Rod Air, gawd love them, said "start drilling holes in the shroud . . . and when you have enough, we'll send you another shroud for free, and you can drill the holes in it where they don't show." Comical, but brilliant. I did this. I would drill a few holes, drive . . . drill a few holes, drive, and all that jazz. I came to the equal balance of . . . it wouldn't stay completely cool either driving or sitting :D. HRA collectively laughed with me and offered to refund my money. I declined, but if I had a 302 or something lighter, I'd use their products all day long. GREAT PEOPLE (in 1995 at least).

So, just when I was about to give up in 1995, the most wonderful thing happened: fall. When the temp eased back down below 75, she was cool as a cucumber.

From 1996 on, that's how the battle was fought . . . from May-June till late September. What I learned is that water-wetter WORKS. You could always tell a difference when you had that stuff. Also, a decent aluminum down-flow radiator works better than a big copper radiator, but not by much. I'm about to try a crossflow soon.

The most interesting thing I learned is that . . . modern OEM stuff REALLY WORKS. When I bought my BeCool radiator (99?), I called those guys and asked them why their product was so much cheaper than Griffin (it was back then). They said it was all in the cost of the cores. Their story is that, some years ago, Griffin spent TONS of money to develop the ultimate radiator design. They wanted to have THE BEST OF THE BEST to put themselves head and shoulders above the rest. GREAT IDEA! According to the guys at BeCool, what they learned is that . . . OEM radiators were the best designs one could have. ODDLY ENOUGH, the 300 to 400 engineers working for Ford and all using the best technology and testing equipment available with practically unlimited budgets and data going back 70 years ACTUALLY KNEW what they were doing. :D Makes sense . . . Anyway, BeCool said they were cheaper because they bought OEM cores. Griffin, more than likely, would too, but they had to jack up prices to recoup their losses. Funny, huh? I'm sure fans are the same way.

Anyway, I like the Flexilite setup, and I've heard nothing bad about it. I'm probably going to call them and see what they think. Right now, I can't bring myself to buy one of those $1,500 units sold by BeCool and Griffin.

Thanks for the help. If you guys hear anything, let me know, eh?
 
Good luck man. I just ordered an aluminum radiator and twin fan setup for my Fox, but obviously yours is a different issue.

So if I can decipher your last post.....you are currently running an alum radiator and not the copper right?
 
Yeah, that's what I have. It's not a crossflow, though, and honestly, it's not terribly big. It's the "stock" size.

*sigh* The 64.5-66 Mustangs are strange beasts. They're the iconic kinda' Mustang, and there are TONS of aftermarket goodies for them, but they have some really "weird" things about them that makes them tough to deal with.

First off, even though the grill looks big and would appear to accomodate a bigazz radiator, in truth, much of that area is solid i.e. no air flow and no radiator. I ran a "warmed up" 289 for a while with a dinky radiator that I wouldn't (now) put on a Briggs and Stratton. Heat was never an issue.

Reading back, I've learned that heat was an issue in HOT areas with 289's with A/C, but that's about it. I don't have A/C. Crap, I didn't have an automatic transmission (eventually).

Looking back, if I would have been smart I would have gotten a '67-'68 Mustang. I don't like the looks of them as much (no offense to other owners), but GAWD they're easier than the earlier ones. They don't look bigger per se, but under the hood and all over, they have LOTS of room for all kinds of fun stuff. Heck, I have issues trying to find power brakes that fit without a plasma cutter. For the newer guys, feh, it's cake.

I'm hoping that a crossflow radiator with a good fan will do the trick for the warmer weather. If all goes well, I'm going to try and order it at the end of the week, and maybe get my car over to the mechanic early next week. I need an aux vac pump and a bigger alternator put in, anyway . . . and a new oil pan. Feh, I may have them put in my roller spring perches, too. What the heck?
 
Yeah, that's what I have. It's not a crossflow, though, and honestly, it's not terribly big. It's the "stock" size.

*sigh* The 64.5-66 Mustangs are strange beasts. They're the iconic kinda' Mustang, and there are TONS of aftermarket goodies for them, but they have some really "weird" things about them that makes them tough to deal with.

First off, even though the grill looks big and would appear to accomodate a bigazz radiator, in truth, much of that area is solid i.e. no air flow and no radiator. I ran a "warmed up" 289 for a while with a dinky radiator that I wouldn't (now) put on a Briggs and Stratton. Heat was never an issue.

Reading back, I've learned that heat was an issue in HOT areas with 289's with A/C, but that's about it. I don't have A/C. Crap, I didn't have an automatic transmission (eventually).

Looking back, if I would have been smart I would have gotten a '67-'68 Mustang. I don't like the looks of them as much (no offense to other owners), but GAWD they're easier than the earlier ones. They don't look bigger per se, but under the hood and all over, they have LOTS of room for all kinds of fun stuff. Heck, I have issues trying to find power brakes that fit without a plasma cutter. For the newer guys, feh, it's cake.

I'm hoping that a crossflow radiator with a good fan will do the trick for the warmer weather. If all goes well, I'm going to try and order it at the end of the week, and maybe get my car over to the mechanic early next week. I need an aux vac pump and a bigger alternator put in, anyway . . . and a new oil pan. Feh, I may have them put in my roller spring perches, too. What the heck?


fun stuff like a 428 :drool:
 
I've got a 409 now. I could put a 428 in the same space. ACTUALLY, I can stuff a 427 side oiler in her. Engine ain't it.

It's friggin' everything else.
 
Why have I never seen pics of this car?

BTW, I have a Flex-a-Lite fan, but not the setup you're talking about. It's OK, but I think OEM fans seem to have better quality, though I have NEVER had issues with mine in 5 years of owning it. Just looking at it side by side with a OEM fan, the OEM stuff looks sturdier. The thing I care for the least, though, is the dumb little thermocouple controller it comes with.
 
Nik, as silly as this sounds, you probably pre-date the care on SN. Back in the "good ole days", you had a sub-address of your own like durden.stangnet.com and it was like a little website for your stuff. I had pics there.

She's the car I had in high school i.e. pre-senior year. She's both one of my greatest pleasures and greatest pains. Back in 1995, she was a 500 hp 0.9 skid pad screaming monster. Now, feh, technology has caught up, and she's more like "well, it's faster than most stock sedans out there, but forget even thinking about comparing her to anything modern". I mean, she's fun, and she scares the heck out of the non-believers, but I'm getting so used to having a modern FAST car that's no issue that I'm rethinking my direction for the next rebuild.

The car used to go everywhere i.e. long trips out of state and all. She's been on Pony Trails and all that jazz. I mean, I used to drive her from Tennessee to Indiana (and back) a few times a month in college, and that was with a 351W and a toploader (and manual drum brakes :p). Right now, though, while the engine purrs like a kitten and the running gear is precious (modified big block toploader and a versey 9"), the support equipment is sadly lacking.

I need to get the cooling system bulletproof. I mean, I can drive her ONLY in the cool times, but sometimes I want to take her out when it's warm. I need get jack up the electrical system i.e. bigger alternator. That's in process. I REALLY NEED to get an aux. vacuum pump installed (I have one) so I can have REAL brakes for a change.

What I REALLY WANT . . . really want . . . next time is a good 409 hyd roller cam motor that has a "stockish" OEM fuel injection setup. I'd love to go with something like a 3.11 or deeper rear end gear with an OD tranny (manual), but that's far down on the list of affordable options. Sadly, the '65 series Mustang doesn't take too well to the normal OD manual out of the Mustang, now. Richmond makes a 6 speed that's spiffy, but it's pricey.

My dream would be something like, sadly, the Dodge hemi motor i.e. a 400+ no muss, no fuss 24 mpg motor that's hooked up to an OD tranny. My horse weighs about 2,800 pounds. I think about how limber our 4,500+ pound Charger is, and I think it would be a BLAST minus 1,700 pounds plus a 4-speed. Probably never happen, though. First, it wouldn't fit, lol, and secondly, Ford doesn't really have anything like that.

The days of needing more horsepower are gone. Feh, it's a matter of money. I could S/C a 409 for 700 or 800 hp EASY, and that would be a painful street car. I'm old now, though, and I want 500 or so that doesn't require any real effort to keep going.

Alas, heating issues first, though . . .
 
You a writer? I find this posts entraining and a joy to read:nice:!

I have a Mark fan with a Fluiddyne rad for my junk, seems to work well.

Have you looked at a different water pump high flow or tried to speed up or slow down the water pump:shrug:? Aluminum water pump:shrug:?

What heads are you running? Just thinking out loud maybe early aftermarket heads did not have good cooling passages?

500hp in 1995 was pretty impressive:D. That may be the equivalent of having 1000hp turbo car today:rolleyes:.

Good luck!
Scott
 
You a writer? I find this posts entraining and a joy to read:nice:!

Oddly enough, yeah, I am . . . sort of. I used to write a lot back in my 20's. Had some stuff published, but nothing major or worth talking about.

I'm a perfect storm. I talk a mile a minute, plus my mother taught me how to type when I was 7. She's fast . . . SCARY fast i.e. she could over load an old 8086's keyboard buffer. It was funny. I type 110-120 words a minute, so a five minute post on SN turns into "War and Peace: The Extended Edition".

Glad you enjoy it, though. :D You'll get over it.

I have a Mark fan with a Fluiddyne rad for my junk, seems to work well.

Yeah, I should probably do something like that, but I'm the world's worst junkyard diver. I'm an equally poor mechanic, too . . . which is why I became an engineer. :D My wife, on the other hand, is a great mechanic. She had to be. Her first car was a Camaro. Me, not so much. I DROVE a Mustang. Actually, still driving the same one. :)

Have you looked at a different water pump high flow or tried to speed up or slow down the water pump:shrug:? Aluminum water pump:shrug:?

I get that a lot, but the problem is heat transfer i.e. I can't cool the water. If I sped up my water flow, all I'd be doing is pumping hot water faster. :)

For the '65 family, the place to put a radiator is pretty substantial but the air hole is REALLY SMALL. Most people crack up when they look inside my engine bay and look at the radiator. What STINKS is that 80% of the time it's JUST FINE. I just can't sit anywhere out in the heat.

What heads are you running? Just thinking out loud maybe early aftermarket heads did not have good cooling passages?

Some 15 year old Dart II heads that have had extensive work done to them. I think the passages are fine, but I have no proof of that. Like I said, I think it's just a heat transfer issue, BUT GOOD THOUGHT . . . never really considered it myself. Hmmmm . . .

500hp in 1995 was pretty impressive:D. That may be the equivalent of having 1000hp turbo car today:rolleyes:.

Yeah, sadly, that was a pretty horkin' good rod for a daily driver "way back when". It was especially good because I could drive her a few hundred miles with no issues, play on a road course, and then drive her home. Most of the hotter cars "back then" were a pain to deal with or were really overweight (I was about 2,800 pounds).

Now though, feh, 500 at the crank is closer to 400 at the rear wheels, and crap, everybody has that. Only they get 24mpg, require no work, run at 170 degrees through hades, and have a torque curve flatter than Kansas. *sigh*

It kills me. I'll be driving my Charger and some old codger will say "they don't make them like they used to" and shake his head. I usually yell out "no kidding because this son of a biscuit eater is FAST . . . I'd probably kick the crap out of those big block turkeys you had back then . . . unless you modified them . . . then I'd have to get an SRT-8 to do it . . . but we'd kick your butts getting 24 mpg with the A/C on high listening to XM radio with kids and groceries in the back . . . nope, they don't make them like they used to . . . THANK GAWD!"

LOL!

What the "kids" today don't seem to grasp is that, way back when, 14 seconds was a good quarter mile time. Two hundred horses was a "high output V8". I lived in a day when the fastest 1/4 mile time was held by a . . . Buick . . . and a V-6 to boot!

Good luck!
Scott

LOL! Thanks Scott. I'm hoping this works. I've come to a whole new horizon for my old Mustang, and it's not what I ever imagined. I grew up with the car and dreams of making the ultimate street car out of her. In the early 90's, I was CLOSE . . . sort of. Since then, though, feh, those dreams have kind of died out. No, they've been killed, actually. My '06 Charger crashed lots of them (in a good way). I mean, I'm an old married guy with kids and grandkids, so I got this 4 door that was "kinda' like a muscle car". Cripes, it's a beast . . . a big, comfy, efficient, easy, nimble, nice looking beast.

Now my desire is to make my car into a relatively comfortable, reliable "family hot rod" i.e. a car that I can take to work, go get some groceries, and still be a hot rod. I don't care anything about street racing. I'm old enough now to see how stupid it REALLY is plus, heck, cars now are so fast they really don't belong on the street at speed.

I'm fighting technology and money now. Gone are the days of "tweaking" a 60's era hot rod to keep up with the Jones's. You need to really step up now just to keep up with production vehicles. Fortunately, there are a lot of high tech mods available to us "old guys" now, but good grief they're pricey. I mean, we're getting to the time where engine mod budgets are starting to fall behind suspension mod budgets. Oh yeah, you can get 600-700 hp easy, and it's clean and reliable, but the new guy can do that with 1.01 on the skid pad and brakes that make the Italians drool. And you can get one that does 450 hp and .99 used for pennies on the dollar.

Alas, the struggle never ends. The BEST THING about having a '65, though, is that no matter how fast everyone else is, you're still the first one . . . the best one.