Smog Pump Delete. What all to Do other than Just Yanking the Pump

[Manewaymja2]

Got a 1987 Mustang. I have already ordered a Smog Delete Pully and going to Yank the Smog Pump Out. We dont have emision Controll Here in Nassau Bahamas.

Now Ive heard that you just take out the Pump and all the Piping that goes with it.
Thats all fine but what to do with Vacum Lines and conection at rear of head?

Is there a diagram out there to visualy see or can someone (step by step) lead me into a sucessful removal please?

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

The crossover pipe in the back of the heads just needs to come out and you need to find a couple bolts that match the threads of the pipe and plug the holes in the back of your heads. You also don't need any special pulley to replace the smog pump, just run a shorter belt.

 

[jrichker]

Do not remove the smog pump if the car still has a catalytic converter H pipe. The catylitic converters will clog and fail without the extra air provided by the smog pump.

The pollution control equipment all shuts off at wide open throttle, so the HP losses from it on the car are 2-5 HP. The catalytic converters may soak a few more HP than that. None of the pollution control equipment reduces the HP enough to cost you a race in anything but professional drag strip competition. Last time I heard, Pinks wasn't coming to the Bahamas...

 

[capri debris]

I've also heard the cats will clog if the smog pump is removed... but I took my pump off 4 years ago and the cats are still just fine, so it's just a bunch of BS.

And a dead pulley to replace the pump is a big waste... just toss the pump and get a shorter belt. It's trial and error getting the correct length belt, but if you tell the parts store what you're trying to do, they may let you take a few belts home to see which one fits and bring the others back.

As for the rest of the smog stuff... just unplug all the electrical connectors and get rid of all the vacuum lines. Leave the wires to the egr connected, but get rid of the vacuum hose that goes to it. Plug the holes in the back of the heads with some bolts and call it a day.

 

[LiquidGT]

I've also heard the cats will clog if the smog pump is removed... but I took my pump off 4 years ago and the cats are still just fine, so it's just a bunch of BS.

Not trying to derail, but do you have aftermarket cats? I always wondered if aftermarket cats can do without the pump since they're made with better "technology" than the 1980's style cats. The smog pipe came loose on my Magnaflow cats a few times and they didnt clog.

 

[warriorpluto]

i seen a diagram on here about the belt sizes but it didnt have the size for deletion of the smog and a/c compressor. anybody know that size? im running a stock setup right now and dont want to rearrange any brackets.

 

[blackened88lx]

The crossover pipe in the back of the heads just needs to come out and you need to find a couple bolts that match the threads of the pipe and plug the holes in the back of your heads. You also don't need any special pulley to replace the smog pump, just run a shorter belt.

What he said. Toss the cats too if you don't have to go through emissions. I wouldn't get the special pulley setup. Like everyone said just pull the pump off and get a short belt. Mine with a/c, power steering, and no smog is 84.5" I believe.

 

[Manewaymja2]

Nice Reply,
1- Pinks may want to come here one day lol and realy if they dont we take it serious enough that we dont rely on Sponsors as such. Thank God for NAPA and alot of other Sponsors SPEED etc. There would not be a PINKS

BHRA - BAHAMAS HOT ROD ASSOCIATION ALL THE WAY

2- No Cats all that stuff Gone, I have a X pipe.

3- Belt size, Well i already have the pully so im going with a stock belt, much easier to find to.

Thanks for all the info about the Delete, Its great to know that everyone here has some good advice.

 

[jrichker]

I've also heard the cats will clog if the smog pump is removed... but I took my pump off 4 years ago and the cats are still just fine, so it's just a bunch of BS.

It seems like ignorance abounds, so I will attempt to inform you. You should at least Google how catalytic converters work before making such a statement.

Catalytic converters consist of two different types of catalysts: Reduction and Oxidation.
The Reduction catalyst is the first converter in a 5.0 Mustang, and the Oxidation converter is the second converter. The Oxidation converter uses the extra air from the smog pump to burn the excess HC. Aftermarket converters that use the smog pump often combine both types of catalysts in one housing.

Now for the Chemistry...
"The reduction catalyst is the first stage of the catalytic converter. It uses platinum and rhodium to help reduce the NOx emissions. When an NO or NO2 molecule contacts the catalyst, the catalyst rips the nitrogen atom out of the molecule and holds on to it, freeing the oxygen in the form of O2. The nitrogen atoms bond with other nitrogen atoms that are also stuck to the catalyst, forming N2. For example:

2NO => N2 + O2 or 2NO2 => N2 + 2O2

The oxidation catalyst is the second stage of the catalytic converter. It reduces the unburned hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide by burning (oxidizing) them over a platinum and palladium catalyst. This catalyst aids the reaction of the CO and hydrocarbons with the remaining oxygen in the exhaust gas. For example:

2CO + O2 => 2CO2

There are two main types of structures used in catalytic converters -- honeycomb and ceramic beads. Most cars today use a honeycomb structure." Quote courtesy of How Stuff Works (HowStuffWorks "Catalysts")

What happens when there is no extra air from the smog pump...
As engines age, the quality of tune decreases and wear causes them to burn oil. We have all seem cars that go down the road puffing blue or black smoke from the tailpipe. Oil consumption and poor tune increase the amount of HC the oxidation catalyst has to deal with. The excess HC that the converters cannot oxidize due to lack of extra air becomes a crusty coating inside the honeycomb structure. This effectively reduces the size of the honeycomb passageways and builds up thicker over time and mileage. Continuous usage under such conditions will cause the converter to fail and clog. The extra air provided by the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) is essential for the oxidation process. It oxidizes the added HC from oil consumption and poor tune and keeps the HC levels within acceptable limits.

Not trying to derail, but do you have aftermarket cats? I always wondered if aftermarket cats can do without the pump since they're made with better "technology" than the 1980's style cats. The smog pipe came loose on my Magnaflow cats a few times and they didnt clog.

Newer catalytic converters do not use the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) because they are designed to work with an improved computer system that runs leaner and cleaner
They add an extra set of O2 sensors after the catalytic converters to monitor the oxygen and HC levels. Using this additional information, the improved computer system adjusts the air/fuel mixture for cleaner combustion and reduced emissions. If the computer cannot compensate for the added load of emissions due to wear and poor tune, the catalytic converters will eventually fail and clog. The periodic checks (smog inspections) are supposed to help owners keep track of problems and get them repaired.

 

[capri debris]

It seems like ignorance abounds, so I will attempt to inform you. You should at least Google how catalytic converters work before making such a statement.

Catalytic converters consist of two different types of catalysts: Reduction and Oxidation.
The Reduction catalyst is the first converter in a 5.0 Mustang, and the Oxidation converter is the second converter. The Oxidation converter uses the extra air from the smog pump to burn the excess HC. Aftermarket converters that use the smog pump often combine both types of catalysts in one housing.

Now for the Chemistry...
"The reduction catalyst is the first stage of the catalytic converter. It uses platinum and rhodium to help reduce the NOx emissions. When an NO or NO2 molecule contacts the catalyst, the catalyst rips the nitrogen atom out of the molecule and holds on to it, freeing the oxygen in the form of O2. The nitrogen atoms bond with other nitrogen atoms that are also stuck to the catalyst, forming N2. For example:

2NO => N2 + O2 or 2NO2 => N2 + 2O2

The oxidation catalyst is the second stage of the catalytic converter. It reduces the unburned hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide by burning (oxidizing) them over a platinum and palladium catalyst. This catalyst aids the reaction of the CO and hydrocarbons with the remaining oxygen in the exhaust gas. For example:

2CO + O2 => 2CO2

There are two main types of structures used in catalytic converters -- honeycomb and ceramic beads. Most cars today use a honeycomb structure." Quote courtesy of How Stuff Works (HowStuffWorks "Catalysts")

What happens when there is no extra air from the smog pump...
As engines age, the quality of tune decreases and wear causes them to burn oil. We have all seem cars that go down the road puffing blue or black smoke from the tailpipe. Oil consumption and poor tune increase the amount of HC the oxidation catalyst has to deal with. The excess HC that the converters cannot oxidize due to lack of extra air becomes a crusty coating inside the honeycomb structure. This effectively reduces the size of the honeycomb passageways and builds up thicker over time and mileage. Continuous usage under such conditions will cause the converter to fail and clog. The extra air provided by the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) is essential for the oxidation process. It oxidizes the added HC from oil consumption and poor tune and keeps the HC levels within acceptable limits.


Newer catalytic converters do not use the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) because they are designed to work with an improved computer system that runs leaner and cleaner
They add an extra set of O2 sensors after the catalytic converters to monitor the oxygen and HC levels. Using this additional information, the improved computer system adjusts the air/fuel mixture for cleaner combustion and reduced emissions. If the computer cannot compensate for the added load of emissions due to wear and poor tune, the catalytic converters will eventually fail and clog. The periodic checks (smog inspections) are supposed to help owners keep track of problems and get them repaired.

Take your chemical mumbo jumbo and stick it. And I DO know how a cat works BTW. I live in the real world and don't rely on what I read on the internet to tell me what works and what won't. I own three '86 Capris and my DD all stock 5.0 Capri that has about 156,000 miles on it ran consistent 15.05's 4 years in a row, then I took off the smog pump to see if it would clog... expecting it to and had an O/R H pipe waiting to be installed when it did. BUT IT NEVER CLOGGED!!! I have been taking the car to the track four years since the pump was removed and get this... it still runs the same 15.05's all day. So there has been no adverse affect from removing the pump. So to anyone who reads this, make your own conclusion... you can listen to this guy because he has a large post count or you can listen to me, because I've proved it to myself. And if anyone doubts what I know about 5.0 Mustangs/Capris, just check out this link Complete Tear Down and Rebuild of a Foxbody - MustangForums.com and decide for yourself if I'm an idiot who has no business giving out advice on these cars. So yes, jrichker, "ignorance DOES abound"... too bad YOU are the ignorant one.

 

[jrichker]

Take your chemical mumbo jumbo and stick it. And I DO know how a cat works BTW. I live in the real world and don't rely on what I read on the internet to tell me what works and what won't. I own three '86 Capris and my DD all stock 5.0 Capri that has about 156,000 miles on it ran consistent 15.05's 4 years in a row, then I took off the smog pump to see if it would clog... expecting it to and had an O/R H pipe waiting to be installed when it did. BUT IT NEVER CLOGGED!!! I have been taking the car to the track four years since the pump was removed and get this... it still runs the same 15.05's all day. So there has been no adverse affect from removing the pump. So to anyone who reads this, make your own conclusion... you can listen to this guy because he has a large post count or you can listen to me, because I've proved it to myself. And if anyone doubts what I know about 5.0 Mustangs/Capris, just check out this link Complete Tear Down and Rebuild of a Foxbody - MustangForums.com and decide for yourself if I'm an idiot who has no business giving out advice on these cars. So yes, jrichker, "ignorance DOES abound"... too bad YOU are the ignorant one.

Thank you for your unkind remarks. I would have been somewhat suprised if there was not a negative reaction to my comments. It seems that you read the first two lines, got insulted and failed to read the rest of the post.

The comments on poor tune and oil consumption being the primary cause of problems seem to have escaped your notice. It appears that your cars are in excellent condition, with a good tune and consume very little oil. If that is the case, you will probably never see a clogged catalytic converter. That is not true for many of the cars in Stangland, high mileage and multiple owners have taken their toll. Some of the cars are in poor tune and burn oil, and that is what damages catalytic converters when they don't have the extra air provided by the smog pump.

 

[capri debris]

Thank you for your unkind remarks. I would have been somewhat suprised if there was not a negative reaction to my comments. It seems that you read the first two lines, got insulted and failed to read the rest of the post.

The comments on poor tune and oil consumption being the primary cause of problems seem to have escaped your notice. It appears that your cars are in excellent condition, with a good tune and consume very little oil. If that is the case, you will probably never see a clogged catalytic converter. That is not true for many of the cars in Stangland, high mileage and multiple owners have taken their toll. Some of the cars are in poor tune and burn oil, and that is what damages catalytic converters when they don't have the extra air provided by the smog pump.

Of course I was insulted and made unkind remarks in response to yours. I did read your entire post to see how your information compared to what I've read about how cats work and you're spot on. I really don't want to get off on the wrong foot with you , because I DO realize you're an informed individual and deserve respect. I don't post much here, but have been a member for a couple of years and browse alot and only post when I feel I have something to add. My DD is high milage like I've stated and the previous owner had 100 shot hooked up to it and beat the crap out of it on a regular basis, so as a result, it burns about 2 quarts of oil between changes. That's why I fully expected to have my cats clog without the pump, but I've concluded the cats are more robust than what most people think. Also, what I've been trying to figure out is why the smog tube connects downwind of the first two cats... they aren't getting fresh air like the secondary cats are, so why don't they clog? Are they made of different materials or what? Maybe you have some information on that because I've never been able to find any info on why only one set of cats need fresh air and the other set doesn't. Could it be because they are closer to the headers and burn hotter so clogging isn't an issue? Please shed some light if you've found a reason for it.

 

[jrichker]

Catalytic reactions are essentially contact processes where the reactive materials flow over the catalytic material. Temperature, catalytic material and chemical composition of the flow determine what type of catalytic reaction will occur.

The first set of cat converters are Reduction converters and are closer to the source of heat. The combination of heat and the type of chemical reaction that occurs between the catalyst and exhaust gases prevents the pollutants from sticking to the honeycomb like they can in the Oxidation converter.

The Oxidation converters runs several hundred degrees cooler than Reduction converters and depend on the flow of extra air to help the catalyst react with the excess HC the engine puts out. They still work without the smog pump air, but at reduced efficiency. Over time the excess HC lays down a layer of carbon and other pollutants that coat the catalyst so that it no longer reacts with the flow of exhaust gases over it. That causes the buildup to increase. The occasional burst of extra heat from a full power run may help to burn off some of the layers of buildup, temporarily extending the life of the Oxidation converters.

 

[strtrcr50]

In the case of aftermarket catted h/x pipes, there is only one set of cats. Is it still necessary to run the smog pump? I do have the ability to turn off the thermactor system in the tune.

 

[wildstang90]

Whel I pulled off my cats I found that 1 side were burnt out. That beeing said its could have been from no smog pump cloging and in the end blowing out the cat witch might have cause my blowen header gasket. There are lots of diff things that can happen "witch" means there can be lots of answers that are correct.

 

[jrichker]

In the case of aftermarket catted h/x pipes, there is only one set of cats. Is it still necessary to run the smog pump? I do have the ability to turn off the thermactor system in the tune.

From my eariler post...
Some newer catalytic converters do not use the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) because they are designed to work with an improved computer system that runs leaner and cleaner
They add an extra set of O2 sensors after the catalytic converters to monitor the oxygen and HC levels. Using this additional information, the improved computer system adjusts the air/fuel mixture for cleaner combustion and reduced emissions. If the computer cannot compensate for the added load of emissions due to wear and poor tune, the catalytic converters will eventually fail and clog. The periodic checks (smog inspections) are supposed to help owners keep track of problems and get them repaired.

 

[warriorpluto]

From my eariler post...
Some newer catalytic converters do not use the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) because they are designed to work with an improved computer system that runs leaner and cleaner
They add an extra set of O2 sensors after the catalytic converters to monitor the oxygen and HC levels. Using this additional information, the improved computer system adjusts the air/fuel mixture for cleaner combustion and reduced emissions. If the computer cannot compensate for the added load of emissions due to wear and poor tune, the catalytic converters will eventually fail and clog. The periodic checks (smog inspections) are supposed to help owners keep track of problems and get them repaired.

ok so what about the belt size if i planned on not using the ac compressor and the smog pump?