so why didn't Ford build this car 5 years ago?

[66Satellite]

Wasn't the SN95 just supposed to last a few years before a total makeover? Why was it delayed so long?

 

[JonJon]

dunno but i wish my 99 had nicer suspension and engine but with 99 body

 

[new22003]

Wasn't the SN95 just supposed to last a few years before a total makeover? Why was it delayed so long?

In a time of ultra high volume, ultra high profit SUV's the mustang takes a back burner for ford. Passenger car development in general at ford was at a standstill.

The mustang was also selling well with no major drop in sales for 20 years. Its hard to motivate bean counters to change a car that is still selling well. Hard core mustang enthusiasts learned to live with the fox platform and some to even love it because of the huge aftermarket for it. So there wasnt much pressure from fans either.

 

[JonJon]

In a time of ultra high volume, ultra high profit SUV's the mustang takes a back burner for ford. Passenger car development in general at ford was at a standstill.

The mustang was also selling well with no major drop in sales for 20 years. Its hard to motivate bean counters to change a car that is still selling well. Hard core mustang enthusiasts learned to live with the fox platform and some to even love it because of the huge aftermarket for it. So there wasnt much pressure from fans either.

so why did ford redesign it this year? i don't think sales were down and there is no competition (well v8 competition)

 

[TomServo92]

so why did ford redesign it this year? i don't think sales were down and there is no competition (well v8 competition)

I think safety regs was one reason. The old design won't meet newer regs coming soon such as moving the gas tank being from behind the rear axle.

 

[new22003]

so why did ford redesign it this year? i don't think sales were down and there is no competition (well v8 competition)

With the Japanese now concentrating on the large truck and SUV segment and Toyota surpassing fords sales, ford has to do something to get back into the passenger car business. Even Honda has shown a light truck they are building. The market was profitable for them because U.S. automakers had a real monopoly. The f-150 supports a large part of ford by itself.

That market recently got broken down even further by trucks like the successful Nissan titan and the new larger Toyota, and possibly a Honda as time goes on. All the major Japanese players have shown v-8 powered full-size trucks and intend to compete head to head with ford, this is evidenced by Toyotas recent entry into nascar truck series. Ford didn’t suspect that a Japanese maker would come out with a v8 powered full-size truck with even more horsepower than an f-150.

Ford had to rethink its plans and realize that a market it once dominated was going to get smaller. Even if Japanese trucks only take a small part of the market, which is doubtful that it will only be small, its still a large part of fords profits.

That’s why ford has been calling this "The year of the car". They are scared that all the eggs were in one basket so to speak. That’s why you see several new car models released this year and in the pipeline for the future. Someone has realized that there is still a large, untapped by ford, passenger car segment currently occupied by Japanese players. A segment that was once dominated by ford with the original Taurus. Ford wanted to redesign as many of the passenger cars as possible this year to show a “fresh new start for ford”. The mustang is a high profile messenger of this.

 

[66Satellite]

In a time of ultra high volume, ultra high profit SUV's the mustang takes a back burner for ford. Passenger car development in general at ford was at a standstill.

The mustang was also selling well with no major drop in sales for 20 years. Its hard to motivate bean counters to change a car that is still selling well. Hard core mustang enthusiasts learned to live with the fox platform and some to even love it because of the huge aftermarket for it. So there wasnt much pressure from fans either.

Yes, but originally wasn't the Mustang originally slated for a total makeover in 99?

 

[new22003]

Yes, but originally wasn't the Mustang originally slated for a total makeover in 99?

Yes but in 1999 ford didnt have japanese competition in the large SUV and large truck segment and was too busy churning out explorers and f-150's as fast as people could buy them. As stated above there wasnt a pressure as there is now because Toyota hadnt surpassed ford in sales in 1999. Ford viewed the passenger car segement with distain and was too worried about SUV development so the mustang got put on a back burner.

 

[JonJon]

hmmm

 

[GT-03]

The S197 was suppose to be out in the fall of 2002 as the all-new 2003 Mustang. A lot of in-fighting among the strong willed members of Ford's "Team Mustang" keep a lot of the S197 design from being finalized for way, may too long. Delay after delay keep slipping the S197.

I doubted the fall of 2004 date for a long time. However, I think Ford's closing of the old Mustang assembly plant, put a stake in the ground, and forced "Team Mustang" to get off their butts and get the job done.

Matter of fact, if you do some searches, back then, the S197 and the 2003 Mustang were names which were used interchangeably.

 

[GT-03]

Yes, but originally wasn't the Mustang originally slated for a total makeover in 99?

"Team Mustang's" in-fighting, to edge or not to edge, delayed the SN95's mid-life style refreshing for a couple of years too.

 

[JonJon]

The S197 was suppose to be out in the fall of 2002 as the all-new 2003 Mustang. A lot of in-fighting among the strong willed members of Ford's "Team Mustang" keep a lot of the S197 design from being finalized for way, may too long. Delay after delay keep slipping the S197.

I doubted the fall of 2004 date for a long time. However, I think Ford's closing of the old Mustang assembly plant, put a stake in the ground, and forced "Team Mustang" to get off their butts and get the job done.

Matter of fact, if you do some searches, back then, the S197 and the 2003 Mustang were names which were used interchangeably.

Yeah, I remember hearing that. But then I heard that they wanted to make the new Mustang the 40th anniversary... so they pushed it back. and then after that it just wasn't ready.

crazy ford

 

[AzSnake]

With the Japanese now concentrating on the large truck and SUV segment and Toyota surpassing fords sales, ford has to do something to get back into the passenger car business. Even Honda has shown a light truck they are building. The market was profitable for them because U.S. automakers had a real monopoly. The f-150 supports a large part of ford by itself.

That market recently got broken down even further by trucks like the successful Nissan titan and the new larger Toyota, and possibly a Honda as time goes on. All the major Japanese players have shown v-8 powered full-size trucks and intend to compete head to head with ford, this is evidenced by Toyotas recent entry into nascar truck series. Ford didn’t suspect that a Japanese maker would come out with a v8 powered full-size truck with even more horsepower than an f-150.

Ford had to rethink its plans and realize that a market it once dominated was going to get smaller. Even if Japanese trucks only take a small part of the market, which is doubtful that it will only be small, its still a large part of fords profits.

That’s why ford has been calling this "The year of the car". They are scared that all the eggs were in one basket so to speak. That’s why you see several new car models released this year and in the pipeline for the future. Someone has realized that there is still a large, untapped by ford, passenger car segment currently occupied by Japanese players. A segment that was once dominated by ford with the original Taurus. Ford wanted to redesign as many of the passenger cars as possible this year to show a “fresh new start for ford”. The mustang is a high profile messenger of this.

Umm yea
Toyota DID NOT and I repeat DID NOT pass Ford last year in sales. They posted that story about taking the #2 position away and then a week latter they admitted in using their own specific tabulation method. And admitted that If they used the industry standard in sales Ford still made more than Toyota world wide.
Oh yea and have you seen the numbers the Titan has sold???
DINKY, and I mean infinitesimal compared to F150 sales. In fact last year ford broke all of it’s own (which are the industries) sales records for pickup production. The Titan hasn’t even put a BB sized dent in the sales of the F150.
Honda? What have you been reading. Their full size truck is built on a CIVIC CHASSIS!!!!!!
Yea, that thing will have a great payload and tow cap.
Honda can’t even build an engine with enough TQ to get their little cars running good. Their not going to have any power train in development that’s going to touch the Big 3 in drive train, especially with Fords new 6.2L Modular their coming out with for the F150. Will be on par with the Dodge and GM top power plants. No, Ford, GM and Dodge are not worried at this time about Toyota, Nissan, Honda or any others when it comes to their full size pickup segment.

 

[new22003]

Umm yea
Toyota DID NOT and I repeat DID NOT pass Ford last year in sales. They posted that story about taking the #2 position away and then a week latter they admitted in using their own specific tabulation method. And admitted that If they used the industry standard in sales Ford still made more than Toyota world wide.
Oh yea and have you seen the numbers the Titan has sold???
DINKY, and I mean infinitesimal compared to F150 sales. In fact last year ford broke all of it’s own (which are the industries) sales records for pickup production. The Titan hasn’t even put a BB sized dent in the sales of the F150.
Honda? What have you been reading. Their full size truck is built on a CIVIC CHASSIS!!!!!!
Yea, that thing will have a great payload and tow cap.
Honda can’t even build an engine with enough TQ to get their little cars running good. Their not going to have any power train in development that’s going to touch the Big 3 in drive train, especially with Fords new 6.2L Modular their coming out with for the F150. Will be on par with the Dodge and GM top power plants. No, Ford, GM and Dodge are not worried at this time about Toyota, Nissan, Honda or any others when it comes to their full size pickup segment.

Someone needs a hug.

Please read that Honda is developing a V8 powered truck slated for a 2008/9 release, to go along with the midsized 4 door concept you have seen. The Nissan Titan has more horsepower than the F-150, why do you think ford is having to build the new truck engine, Ford has stated it is to regain the horsepower crown from the Titan. Honda, Toyota, Nissan used to make a BB sized dent in all U.S. auto sales, now they have several cars on the best selling list.

Toyota is developing a bigger, more powerful V8 for the next gen REAL full-size truck. Of course Toyota joining nascar doesn’t mean they are trying to target the middle America f-150 market .

If Ford,GM,and Dodge aren’t worried about it they are doomed to make the same mistakes of the 1970's and 1980's when they weren’t worried about car sales or loss to the Japanese.

Its simple marketing. 1 million units with 6 makers versus 3 is something for any first year business student to worry about. Even if the new models only pull 100,000 units each (which is about what the Titan sold this year) that’s still a huge share of the market.

Do I like that this is happening...no. But do I blind myself to the fact that is is...no.

If Ford, GM, and Dodge took the view that you do "Japan cant compete with us" or that “This market is always safe” then they will go out of business. Japanese makers have proved that theory incorrect time and again.

Your views are why we have lost so much market share to begin with. No market is safe, we can’t get complacent again. It’s great to be patriotic and support ford, I do, but you can’t take the attitude that the F-150 will always be the best selling vehicle.

The Japanese makers have a habit of coming into a market, getting laughed at, then dominating it.

Perhaps you didnt realize this but Japanese makers now have 25% of the light truck market, up from 5% in 1985.

 

[iwanna05]

Yea & what he said!

 

[351CJ]

Five years? You're joking, aren't you. The last version of the Mustang 99-04, the 99 model did not go into production until December 98.

The new Mustang was originally planned for the 2003 Model Year. Then it was delayed until the 2004 Model year, as someone said above, financial limitations and other priorities. It slipped again to be a 2005 model to go on sale sale on the 40th anniversary of the original intro (April 2004) but it slipped again to the final intro. date.

There really was not any rush to get the new Mustang into production as the old model sold very well until June 04. June '04 was the first month the sales of the old Stang showed a significant drop.

Mustang calander year sales, US only:

1999: 166,915
2000: 173,676
2001: 169,198
2002: 138,356
2003: 150,601

2002 was the only real down year and it was an all around tough year for the economy.

 

[JonJon]

Five years? You're joking, aren't you. The last version of the Mustang 99-04, the 99 model did not go into production until December 99, less than 5 years before the 2005 stang went into production.

..... the 99 was in production WELL before december 1999. I'd guess sometime in late 1998. I got my car in late August 99. They were clearing inventory for the 2000's.

 

[YellowMach69]

With the Japanese now concentrating on the large truck and SUV segment and Toyota surpassing fords sales,.

This is not correct at all. Ford f 150 sales are still higher than anyones over 200 thousand more trucks than even chevy ,Ford has dominated truck sales for over 20 years straight!!

 

[new22003]

This is not correct at all. Ford f 150 sales are still higher than anyones over 200 thousand more trucks than even chevy ,Ford has dominated truck sales for over 20 years straight!!

Please re-read that. Its Toyota surpassing ford sales as a whole, not just f-150 sales.

Heres a link for you.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-11-10-toyota-ford_x.htm

 

[AzSnake]

Please re-read that. Its Toyota surpassing ford sales as a whole, not just f-150 sales.

Heres a link for you.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-11-10-toyota-ford_x.htm

You didn't look that hard or you just ignored what i told you earlier about Toyota useing dirty numbers for that.
Here's something to educate you.
http://www.theautochannel.com/F/news/2003/12/19/174847.html

TOKYO December 19, 2003; Dow Jones reported that Toyota Motor Corp. President Fujio Cho Friday dismissed speculation that the world's third-biggest automaker by sales may soon pip Ford Motor Co. for the number two spot.

"We can't even see Ford's back" yet, Cho said.

The Japanese automaker said Thursday it and its two auto subsidiaries Daihatsu Motor Co. and Hino Motors Ltd. together aim to boost sales by 4% to 7.08 million vehicles worldwide next year. That would compare favorably with the 6.97 million vehicles Ford sold in 2002.

Cho also ruled out the possibility that his company's expanding sales in the U.S. could cause trade friction between Washington and Tokyo, as Toyota has been boosting local production there.

Toyota's sales volume in the U.S. rose in November for the seventh consecutive month, with its sales for the first 11 months of the year up 6.5% on year in the world's biggest auto market.

Toyota estimates its exports will rise 1% on year in 2003 and expects them to fall 1% in 2004

AND

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1077740/posts

Ford Still #2 (Toyota Says)
Bloomberg News | Alan Ohnsman


Posted on 02/13/2004 2:45:58 PM PST by 38special


Toyota says Ford is still No. 2

By Alan Ohnsman / Bloomberg News

Toyota Motor Co.p., Asia’s largest automaker, didn’t pass Ford Motor Co. in total car and truck sales in 2003 if its sales are calculated on the same basis, Toyota President Fujio Cho said.

Toyota said in January that it sold 6.78 million vehicles worldwide last year, including those of subsidiaries Hino Motors Ltd. and Daihatsu Motor Co., exceeding Ford’s 6.72 million. Last week, the Japanese company announced a modified total of 6.49 million, excluding sales of joint ventures in China and Indonesia.

“If you use exactly the same basis for comparison, Ford is the No. 2 carmaker,” Cho told reporters at a briefing in San Francisco. “The numbers Ford announced were the unit sales based upon financial results at the closure of the books for the fiscal year. Using the same base for calculation, according to that, it is clear Ford is the No. 2.”

Toyota, which plans to raise its global market share to 15 percent within a decade from more than 10 percent now, has said it has no specific goal of beating Ford or General Motors Corp., the world’s largest automaker, by sales. Still, 15 percent market share would push the Toyota City, Japan-based company’s sales beyond that of General Motors, which now makes more than 14 percent of vehicles purchased worldwide.

Ford’s sales number is calculated on a wholesale basis, representing sales to dealers and distributors. Toyota has said its initial number was retail, or registered vehicle sales, while its second number was wholesale.

Cho and General Motors Chief Executive Richard Wagoner were in San Francisco to mark the 20th anniversary of the automakers’ jointly owned New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. plant. The factory in Fremont, California, operated from 1963 to 1982 as a General Motors facility and reopened in 1984 as an equal partnership between the two carmakers.

Toyota’s U.S. sales operations are based in Torrance, Calif. The company’s U.S. shares, which have gained 36 percent in the past year, fell $1.45 to $66.55 in New York Stock Exchange composite trading.

Toyota, Honda and Nissan pose NO threat to the big 3 right now. Oh yea and Ford started development on the Hurricane 6.2 before the Titans numbers were ever released. They started the Hurricane motor program because they were getting STOMPED by Gm and Dodge in HP numbers. They need to compete with them WAY before they have to worry anything about Nissan.

Also who the hell cares if Honda comes out with a V8. V8 means nothing. Honda has never made an impressive engine in terms of output. Oh yea sure you can look at peak numbers and the "ricer" hp/liter ratio but their motors and even their larger V6's have been WAY down on low end tq.
the truck that’s in development is off a modified CRV chassis which is in turn a modified Civic chassis. They’re in no way going to be a threat and unless Toyota fixes their WEAK frame in their motors their never going to compete with the big 3. As it is Toyotas NA motors are barley-hitting 250hp and with their TRD SC it's an anemic 300ish hp at the crank. Meanwhile you got GM and Dodge releasing 350+ hp NA truck motors with GOOBS of low-end grunt. The new Hurricane motor will be in the same league as the other 2 and most likely will have a better tq curve. The 3 out of Japan have at least 10 years if not more of totally dedicated R&D and marketing campaign to pull within even anything close of hurting the Big 3's truck sales, Nissan is closer tot he others but they have to push the product harder. Also with a DOHC motor in that truck it's VERY deceiving, their using a peaky hp number to try and drive stupid buyers into the truck based on a number. The Titan's power plant isn't a great truck motor. It's peaky in power. It's a slaughter now as far as sales and will be for quite a long time. And that’s if the Big 3 stay stagnant. That’s doubtful since in the past 3 years their tuck products have stunning with all 3 companies. Especially with Fords Chassis and suspensions they have been developing for their trucks. It's going to push them farther ahead in the next few years and Ford continues to keep their tuck prices down below GM's and Dodges.