Spanked a GTP tonight

25thmustang · Sep 23, 2004

They weigh a LOT more than your fox. For better comparison look at a 1995 or so GT. Even though the Fbody still weighs a bit more, better comparison as far as weight goes. Never underestimate am Fbody, they make great power, whether LT1 or LS1!

CRASH7772 · Sep 23, 2004

25thmustang said:
They weigh a LOT more than your fox. For better comparison look at a 1995 or so GT. Even though the Fbody still weighs a bit more, better comparison as far as weight goes. Never underestimate am Fbody, they make great power, whether LT1 or LS1!

Vehicle: 1999 Pontiac Firebird Formula WS6
Final Assembly:St. Therese, Quebec, Canada
Drivetrain:5.7-liter LS1 pushrod V8, 320hp @ 5200 rpm, 345 ft-lbs. @ 4400 rpm; 6-speed manual; RWD.
EPA rating: 19 mpg City / 28 mpg Highway
Curb Weight: 3341
Suspension:f-SLA; r-live axle w/torque arm, Panhard bar; antiroll bars; four-wheel disc brakes; ABS.
Pontiac Firebird Formula WS6 Coupe 5.5 seconds 13.9@107.6 mph

Vehicle: 1999 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS
Final Assembly: St. Therese, Quebec, Canada
Drivetrain: 5.7-liter LS1 pushrod V8, 320hp @ 5200 rpm, 345 ft-lbs. @ 4400; 6-speed manual; RWD.
EPA rating:19 mpg City / 28 mpg Highway
Curb Weight: 3439
Suspension:f-SLA; r-live axle w/torque arm, Panhard rod; antiroll bars; four-wheel disc brakes; ABS.
Tires / Wheels: P275/40ZR-17s on 17 x 9-inch wheels.
Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS Coupe 5.6 seconds 14.0@103.9 mph

Vehicle: 1999 Ford Mustang GT
Final Assemblyearborn, Mich., USA
Drivetrain:4.6-liter, SOHC 2V V8, 260hp @ 5250 rpm; 302 ft-lbs. @ 4000 rpm; 5-speed manual; RWD.
EPA rating:17 mpg City / 24 mpg Highway
Curb Weight: 3242
Suspension: f-MacPherson strut; r-live axle; antiroll bars; four-wheel disc brakes; ABS; traction control.
Tires / Wheels: P245/45ZR-17s on 17 x 8-inch wheels.
Ford Mustang GT Coupe 5.8 seconds 14.3@101.5 mph

200lbs is only 2 tenths difference, the extra 80 rated HP should be close to 8 tenths for that E.T. range. (THE GENERAL RULE OF THUMB IS THAT FOR EVERY 100 LBS REMOVED, ACCELERATION WILL IMPROVE BY .10 SECONDS IN THE 1/4 MILE. THIS IS EQUIVALENT TO ADDING 10 HP. THIS IS WHY RACE CARS ARE STRIPPED DOWN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT LESS VEHICLE WEIGHT OR MASS EQUALS A MUCH IMPROVED POWER TO WEIGHT RATIO (PWR).) Sorry about the caps it was cut and paste from a web page. This is the point I'm trying to make, sure there are faster times on the F-body's for that year but there are faster times on the GT as well.

As far as the Fox I have....1987-93 MUSTANG 5.0 CURB WEIGHTS

(ALL CURB WEIGHTS ARE APPROXIMATES

1989 GT CONVERTIBLE 3,640*

1989 LX 5.0 CONVERTIBLE 3 ,550**

1987-93 GT HATCH BACK 3,300***

1987-93 LX 5.0 HATCH BACK 3,200***

1987-93 LX 5.0 NOTCH BACK 3,050***

I hope this is not offending anyone, I just think it's interesting to discuss our competition.

GRGT1994 · Sep 23, 2004

As someone who owns both a GTP and a GT, I probably should throw in my 2 cents.

These two are totally different cars. And while it's kinda novel that a stock GTP is theoretically comparable to a stock GT in some performance areas, I have 3 things to point out. Front wheel drive. Automatic. No convertible.

To be sure, the GTP is a fun daily driver that scoots along pretty well. That's it. But there is no substitute for torque. The Mustang simply feels faster, and is much more fun to drive. Top that off with plenty more options for steping up the power in a Stang, and there is no question which is the performance winner. (Just don't be surprised if a GTP bites you in the arse, cause it's real cheap to swap a pully on the supercharger.)

25thmustang · Sep 24, 2004

First off those numbers are very off...

Your average LS1 is going to run in the mid to low 13s at well over 105. If you want to magazine race, then go by those numbers, if you want to go to the track and see, you will notice they run MUCH faster than a low 14 @ 103. Also most 99+ GTs wont be trapping 101. I would say the stats should look more like this...

WS6/SS (any LS1 really): 13.2-13.5 @ 105-107
99+ GT: 13.9-14.2 @ 98-100

These are the averages I have seen, read about, and hold pretty much true for the most part. As for the weights, it is probably only 200 lbs or so from a newer GT, but they are definately NOT only 2 tenths and 2 mph off. The GTs cannot compare to an LS1, and even the older 1999 and 2001 Cobras could barely keep up.

I know a LOT of LS1 and Fbody owners, therefore keep on them alot more than your average Mustang owner. I can tell you from experience, since about 1993 the Mustang hasent been able to keep up with the Fbodies (minus the Cobras of a few years). Sad truth, but in the end who cares, lol!

TrophyHead · Sep 24, 2004

Nice Kill. I know a guy with one and hes got a pulley, oil cooler, chip, and some other stuff. Pretty fast GTP. I raced him before and was short about a car length. He says it runs high 12's. Not sure about that. Unless my car is running low 13's. I gotta get to the drag strip one of these days.

PJM99 · Sep 26, 2004

Yeah my buddies 91 GTP was quick. I totally ****ed up my driving. I didn't launch it right at all, I didn't rev the engine up, when the light turned green, I went straight from normal idle. Not good. Then I didin't hate my car enough to give it full throttle. He didn't beat me but he did launch ahead of me. I caught right up to him but I didn't push her all the way. Well, he feels pretty proud, and I give him props, the car is fast and he drives it well. But I still don't think it's faster. It has a good top end, but I think with a better launch and more throttle I would have destroyed him.

His got a 91 GTP, NA 3.4 with 97 upper and lower intake, bigger injectors and a bunch of other mods.

CRASH7772 · Sep 26, 2004

PJM99 said:
Yeah my buddies 91 GTP was quick. I totally ****ed up my driving. I didn't launch it right at all, I didn't rev the engine up, when the light turned green, I went straight from normal idle. Not good. Then I didin't hate my car enough to give it full throttle. He didn't beat me but he did launch ahead of me. I caught right up to him but I didn't push her all the way. Well, he feels pretty proud, and I give him props, the car is fast and he drives it well. But I still don't think it's faster. It has a good top end, but I think with a better launch and more throttle I would have destroyed him.

His got a 91 GTP, NA 3.4 with 97 upper and lower intake, bigger injectors and a bunch of other mods.

I was reading your thread on racing him and saw the results. The only thing that kinda got me was when you said "I didn't give it full throttle"? Did you not run it to peak power or just kinda feather the throttle? You should be able to beat him pretty good, espically if your running easy and he's pushing it. Have either of you been to the drag strip?

GTP2GTO · Sep 26, 2004

Hey guys,,, I am a mustang fan too. However, a Stock 97 or newer GTP should have no problem running with a Stock five speed Mustang GT from the late 80's models up to the 1998 with the right drivers. I have a GTP and a GTO. My GTP ran 14.6@95mph stock with a 2.2 60' time. My first three runs were 14.9, 14.8, 14.8. Just takes a lil practice to get the launch down. 14.5's and 14.4's arent uncommon from stock GTP's.

PJM99 · Sep 26, 2004

CRASH7772 said:
I was reading your thread on racing him and saw the results. The only thing that kinda got me was when you said "I didn't give it full throttle"? Did you not run it to peak power or just kinda feather the throttle? You should be able to beat him pretty good, espically if your running easy and he's pushing it. Have either of you been to the drag strip?

Well, my first mistake was the launch, I didn't bring it up to RPM before just came out from idle basically, plus I didn't react as fast to the light. Then I didn't want to push my car to hard, like he said he had his floored I didn't, I maybe only gave 3/4 throttle at most. He was more fearless than I was, #1 I had a friend in the car with me and #2 I didn't want to risk losing the car or blowing it up.

Overall, even with my bad trying I still stayed right with him. If I had launced it right and ran to peak power I would have walked him good. But my bad driving and I guess trying to not be too reckless made him win bragging rights for night. I'm not a street racer, I'll play around but I usually don't go all out. I think it was crazy that we even thought about doing this.

We never went to the track, My car is basically stock 93 Cobra. All I've done are off-road h-pipe, flowmasters, k&n filter and bosch platinums.

His car is a 91 GTP, N/A 3.4 with 97 Upper and lower intake, bigger injectors and some other little mods.

Scorcher2005 · Sep 26, 2004

y did u go w/ platinum plugs?

PJM99 · Sep 26, 2004

Well, I've heard the platinums run better, but I think the coppers were better. I need to go through and do my plugs, wires, cap and rotor.

shanee682002 · Aug 5, 2006

ok first off, no one can reply without registering first, so you have no critisism.. I read some of this and its so funny.
so your jumping up and down cheering because what? you guys can stay neck and neck with one of GM's smaller engines..... congrats! its a LUXURY CAR! they arn't even in the same league.. the gtp can actually sit 4-5 people unlike the 2 seats and 2 cupholders that the mudstain offers. what luxurys do the mustang offer?
Etc: the onboard computer, onstar, heated seats, heads-up display?? exactley!
also what kind of milage do you get in one of those?? 17mpg vs. the 28 a gtp gets.

face it! your racing a car thats main purpose wasnt centerd around sports car design. its built first as a comfortable car. it gets almost twice the mpg, has many more gadgets, is alot more heavy, and it still will push your mudstains to everything they can muster!!! OUCH!

and if you want to see the cars that Gm made for that category the mustangs in, try the GTO, Trans Am, Camaro SS, GXP(V8 Grand prix), the new Monte carlo SS (V8), and the Corvette....... Sorry Ford aint got nothing on GM..

Oh one more thing for the ford fans... try this game look on the road and pick some old generations from GM and ford (like the 80's, 70's, etc.) and the comparitive cars ( like the taurus vs. monte carlo, escort v. cavilier, etc.) and see which ones are more around and running better!!
most fans of ford overlook this and dont relize Fords dont last! chevy is the one thats built to last

Lash · Aug 5, 2006

Me thinks some of you need to go watch at the track and see what some of these cars ACTUALLY run. Magazine racings sucks. Go watch somebody with a little seat time....you thoughts/impressions might change.

4.5's and 14.4's arent uncommon from stock GTP's.

For under $1k they can easily run consistent 13's.

Guero · Aug 5, 2006

my friend just ran a best of 13.5 in his gtp, with a 3.2 pulley and a really good tune! Nice kill though

90lxboost'n · Aug 5, 2006

You guys that knock the GTP's shouldn't. My GTP with a 3.4 pulley and k&n ran a 14.17 @ 97 mph 2.2 60' and it is a 4 door. The guys that run slower need to hold second gear out until 5800-6000 rpm if not it will shift very early. Also do not manually pull it down to 1st gear it will shift at 5200 automatically, leave it in 2nd. Anybody near my town with a near stock foxbody who wants to go out on a backroad bring it on. I work with a guy who had an 88 mass air vert, he wanted to race me until he rode in my GTP after that he would not race me and he quit running his mouth. He also used to hate GM, Not now.. I respect anycar that runs good whether it is a ricer or a domestic car, Horsepower is horsepower..

1SLO306 · Aug 5, 2006

25thmustang said:
I could see if Gms 3.8 was awesome and their V8s sucked, but their V8s were better in comparison to Fords over the years. After 1993 Ford couldnt touch the LT1 and LS1s, and even with the 03 Cobra like stated above, Needed to be Supercharged (now I dont agree with the fact it needed to be, but see how it sounds when someone else says it about Ford, stupid right). I hate when someone says they needed Forced induction, no they didnt. They use it because it is an easy way to keep the motor the same, add a lot of power, and keep the warranty! GM or Ford, V8 or V6 you cant tell me they NEED forced induction to go fast.

Also I have seen 600 hp naturally aspired 3.8s. If you have heard of Kenny Dutweiller you would know what I mean!

Not going against Ford, just sticking up for GM, when its clear, GMs smaller motor, makes more power!

the only reason i dont like the lt1/ls1 and 5.0/4.6 comparison is that ford kept the CI's down and chevy upped em so they could be faster or else they would be right there with us. Thats just my opinion tho

Daggar · Aug 5, 2006

shanee682002 said:
ok first off, no one can reply without registering first, so you have no critisism.. I read some of this and its so funny.
so your jumping up and down cheering because what? you guys can stay neck and neck with one of GM's smaller engines..... congrats! its a LUXURY CAR! they arn't even in the same league.. the gtp can actually sit 4-5 people unlike the 2 seats and 2 cupholders that the mudstain offers. what luxurys do the mustang offer?
Etc: the onboard computer, onstar, heated seats, heads-up display?? exactley!
also what kind of milage do you get in one of those?? 17mpg vs. the 28 a gtp gets.

face it! your racing a car thats main purpose wasnt centerd around sports car design. its built first as a comfortable car. it gets almost twice the mpg, has many more gadgets, is alot more heavy, and it still will push your mudstains to everything they can muster!!! OUCH!

and if you want to see the cars that Gm made for that category the mustangs in, try the GTO, Trans Am, Camaro SS, GXP(V8 Grand prix), the new Monte carlo SS (V8), and the Corvette....... Sorry Ford aint got nothing on GM..

Oh one more thing for the ford fans... try this game look on the road and pick some old generations from GM and ford (like the 80's, 70's, etc.) and the comparitive cars ( like the taurus vs. monte carlo, escort v. cavilier, etc.) and see which ones are more around and running better!!
most fans of ford overlook this and dont relize Fords dont last! chevy is the one thats built to last

Good job dredging up a 2 year old thread just for the purpose of whining. You're too cool. Oh... and you're also outtah here. Troll somewhere else.

Spanked a GTP tonight

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