Progress Thread Starting New Build

loyalblue · May 27, 2015

hoopty5.0 said:
Talk this guy down some. It's in your back yard.

Damn...this IS in my back yard! It's got the staple DragLites on it, too! Though I'd prolly sell those as I've had them on 2 previous Mustangs...this time around I'm going with the ConvoPros, but still it's great car! Kinda exactly what I want and the little rust can easily be fixed. I'm gonna give his a call and maybe go check it out this evening. Thanks for post, I really appreciate it!

loyalblue · May 28, 2015

Well, I think I decided to go with the Scat 9000 331 rotating assembly, with the forged pistons. You guys think that'll handle ~400 rwhp? I decided to listen to you guys about putting the high dollar stuff in a stock block and the block splitting before the internals give. Looking to throw 8-10 lbs of boost on it and was wondering if the assembly will handle that? Was gonna go with what I usually go with as far as heads...pretty much the staple TrickFlow TW, but think I'm going AFR this time but I want to know if I'm good with the 175s or should I get the 185s? Either way, they'll be ported and polshed unless I can get the AFRs already worked up. One more thing, will the Anderson B-31 do the trick? I'm also wanting to rid my Pony of the "alphabet" E-cam I've always used in the past and the B-31 seems like it's what I'm looking for. I was also thinking of going with the Performer RPM II to top it all off. That's just kind of what I like with the research I've done this past week. Nothing is definite, though...I'm still in the very early stages of deciding what "goodies" to put together. Please advise.

Boosted92LX · May 29, 2015

loyalblue said:
Well, I think I decided to go with the Scat 9000 331 rotating assembly, with the forged pistons. You guys think that'll handle ~400 rwhp? I decided to listen to you guys about putting the high dollar stuff in a stock block and the block splitting before the internals give. Looking to throw 8-10 lbs of boost on it and was wondering if the assembly will handle that? Was gonna go with what I usually go with as far as heads...pretty much the staple TrickFlow TW, but think I'm going AFR this time but I want to know if I'm good with the 175s or should I get the 185s? Either way, they'll be ported and polshed unless I can get the AFRs already worked up. One more thing, will the Anderson B-31 do the trick? I'm also wanting to rid my Pony of the "alphabet" E-cam I've always used in the past and the B-31 seems like it's what I'm looking for. I was also thinking of going with the Performer RPM II to top it all off. That's just kind of what I like with the research I've done this past week. Nothing is definite, though...I'm still in the very early stages of deciding what "goodies" to put together. Please advise.

Unless you are going to buy a dart block, the stock bottom end (rotating assy) will handle more than the block will. I'm doing 450/489 to the rear wheels @ 9-10 psi with stock bottom end, some old edlelbrock rpm heads and an rpm II intake. If you are going to boost it, and are not shooting for over 500 rwhp, an expensive crank kit is not money well spent.

loyalblue · May 29, 2015

Boosted92LX said:
Unless you are going to buy a dart block, the stock bottom end (rotating assy) will handle more than the block will. I'm doing 450/489 to the rear wheels @ 9-10 psi with stock bottom end, some old edlelbrock rpm heads and an rpm II intake. If you are going to boost it, and are not shooting for over 500 rwhp, an expensive crank kit is not money well spent.

I thought that $850-ish for the complete Scat 331 rotating assembly was going the cheap way...I think any cheaper than that would be some stuff straight from China, I have this thing about buying USA, and from what I've read the rough forgings for the Scat stuff are from China but the final machining (which is the machining that really counts) is done right here in the States. The Scat 9000 is a really good cast crank from all I've read, dominating the Eagle stuff. I figured if I ever do go with a better block, I'll have some really good parts to transfer over. I just think $850 for a crank, forged rods/pistons, rings, bearings, etc was a hell of a good deal.
Question...What about AFR 185s? I've never run AFRs before, always have run TrickFlow, but everything I read about AFR seems to be good stuff. Since the heads come 100% intake/exhaust/combustion chamber ported, can they still be opened up to flow better?

A5literMan · May 29, 2015

loyalblue said:
Well, I think I decided to go with the Scat 9000 331 rotating assembly, with the forged pistons. You guys think that'll handle ~400 rwhp? I decided to listen to you guys about putting the high dollar stuff in a stock block and the block splitting before the internals give. Looking to throw 8-10 lbs of boost on it and was wondering if the assembly will handle that? Was gonna go with what I usually go with as far as heads...pretty much the staple TrickFlow TW, but think I'm going AFR this time but I want to know if I'm good with the 175s or should I get the 185s? Either way, they'll be ported and polshed unless I can get the AFRs already worked up. One more thing, will the Anderson B-31 do the trick? I'm also wanting to rid my Pony of the "alphabet" E-cam I've always used in the past and the B-31 seems like it's what I'm looking for. I was also thinking of going with the Performer RPM II to top it all off. That's just kind of what I like with the research I've done this past week. Nothing is definite, though...I'm still in the very early stages of deciding what "goodies" to put together. Please advise.

All the parts you're talking about would be a very solid combo. The Anderson cam is a solid option. I will recommend going with the trick flow 11r heads in either the 190-205cc cnc ported version. But the AFR heads are a solid option and it comes down to personal preference. Go with at least a 185cc head and with moderate boost levels(regular Vortech unit for example w/stock pulleys) you'll make 450-500 easily. Your plans are relatively save as long as you have a proper tune up. Now if you plan on adding more boost or spin over 6k rpm regularly the block will break. But otherwise should run well for a few years

A5literMan · May 29, 2015

Now what I would do is just get a dart shortblock and wait to add boost if the budget is tight. You can have an all forged rotating assembly for around 4500$ A good 363 will make 450+ rwhp without boost. Sell the machined 302 roller.

Boosted92LX · May 29, 2015

loyalblue said:
I thought that $850-ish for the complete Scat 331 rotating assembly was going the cheap way...I think any cheaper than that would be some stuff straight from China, I have this thing about buying USA, and from what I've read the rough forgings for the Scat stuff are from China but the final machining (which is the machining that really counts) is done right here in the States. The Scat 9000 is a really good cast crank from all I've read, dominating the Eagle stuff. I figured if I ever do go with a better block, I'll have some really good parts to transfer over. I just think $850 for a crank, forged rods/pistons, rings, bearings, etc was a hell of a good deal.
Question...What about AFR 185s? I've never run AFRs before, always have run TrickFlow, but everything I read about AFR seems to be good stuff. Since the heads come 100% intake/exhaust/combustion chamber ported, can they still be opened up to flow better?

Well, yeah that is cheap for a stroker, but my point was you can make all the power the stock block can handle on the factory crank rods and pistons, IF you are going with a supercharger or turbo. Like I said, if you are boosting it, you can buy bearings and rings if the bores aren't wasted and put the leftover 5 or 600 bucks you saved not buying the stroker kit for a good tune.

If you plan on buying the stroker kit and a power adder for boost, the engine will never see it's potential on the stock block, so why not make 450 to 500 hp and save money?

Boosted92LX · May 29, 2015

Or, do like @A5literMan says, and build a dart stroker and run it n/a untill you can save up money for a blower and really lay it down..

I'm going dart 363 later on and turning my boost up to about 20 psi.

loyalblue · May 29, 2015

Ok...let's just forget everything I've said up to this point. I think I'm gonna just go with a 351 roller since I'm starting from scratch. It will also be cool to put the 5.8 badge behind the fender. I think as far as heads go, I'll go with the AFR 195s, same cam, 351 LIM (will the Performer RPM II have any issues bolting up to that?). I'm not really worried about hood clearance as it will have a raised cowl. Will that stock block take some abuse if it's tuned correctly? I will probably be changing my mind an awful lot during this build as new information arises, and preferences change. Meanwhile, I'll be picking up a fresh 302 block from my machinist next week...it'll be for sale

Boosted92LX · May 29, 2015

loyalblue said:
Ok...let's just forget everything I've said up to this point. I think I'm gonna just go with a 351 roller since I'm starting from scratch. It will also be cool to put the 5.8 badge behind the fender. I think as far as heads go, I'll go with the AFR 195s, same cam, 351 LIM (will the Performer RPM II have any issues bolting up to that?). I'm not really worried about hood clearance as it will have a raised cowl. Will that stock block take some abuse if it's tuned correctly? I will probably be changing my mind an awful lot during this build as new information arises, and preferences change. Meanwhile, I'll be picking up a fresh 302 block from my machinist next week...it'll be for sale

A 351w block is good for 700+hp. A 302 intake will not fit it nor will the oil pan. There are pros and cons to a 351w, it can be stroked to 7 liters, very strong, but add unwanted weight to an already nose heavy car. If you are only driving straight line they are great. If you like to corner, stick with a 302 based motor.

loyalblue · May 29, 2015

Yeah, I'm not much of a corner'r, to be honest, I don't really speed, I just like to know I have it. Stop light to stop light would mainly be my concern if I do decide to lay into it. With it being (more) nose heavy with the 351, I was thinking aftermarket k-member and manual rack to offset that weight gain, I'll also be running aluminum heads so I think it'll corner fine, if not better than a 302. Yes/no?

90sickfox · May 29, 2015

I have a 331ci motor with scat rotating assembly, h beam rods, ported twisted wedge heads, holley systemax intake, 75mm throttle body, 30lb injectors, comp cam xe282 cam, mexico block, and main girdle....wish I would've bought a 351 and stroked to a 393...way cheaper....still no replacement for displacement.

90sickfox · May 29, 2015

To answer your question...a friend of mine has a 351 stroked to a 427 in his fox.... Upgraded brakes and suspension... The extra weight isn't that much. Coil overs, k-member, fiberglass hood, and air pump ditching more than make up for the poundage.

loyalblue · May 29, 2015

The golden rule...regarding cubic inches

loyalblue · May 29, 2015

I was thinking the same thing...with the aluminum heads alone you make up that weight

A5literMan · May 29, 2015

You won't make up the weight with just alum heads but it really isn't a big deal. You won't notice the difference in weight 351 vs 302. If going 351w based I highly recommend a stroker kit. There are a ton of 408's making 550 fwhp with a ton of torque. And like posted above they can take 750-800. Go with a single plane intake like the super Vic EFI intake or Tfs r box intake. The b31 cam is to small go with a custom roller(I got mine for 403$)

loyalblue · May 29, 2015

Thanks ASliterMan...I think my first Mustang ('90 LX) had a box intake. It was a Hartman intake...I think they called a "breadbox" intake. I was also going to install the lowering motor mounts to get the center of gravity a little lower. You're right about stroking it...I was thinking 39, later stroking to a 408/427 on the next build. When you say the cam is too small, are you suggesting something with more lift? How do I go about getting a custom grind? I'm not really educated on the geometry and flow specs of cams and what would be good for me, so on and so forth...will the grinder and me communicate on what I'm looking for? Just never done that process before. Should I go forged crank on this or will a good cast be sufficient enough? H-beam or I-beam rods?

loyalblue · May 29, 2015

...maybe the Trick Flow Stage 2 cam for the 351 with 1.7 roller rockers to squeeze a little more lift out of it

A5literMan · May 30, 2015

I can send you Freezy's phone number(he's the one that Spec'd my cam). But yes you just need to know what you want to do with the i.e what heads,intake,trans,rear gear ratio,compression ratio,exhaust size,planned useage(drag strip,street,street/strip,etc). But for a healthy 408 I would be expecting duration figures around at least 230's to 240's with lift numbers in the high .500's to low .600's. DONT run 302 parts on a 393-427 build!! It will under perform(still make power but you could be loosing 100hp over its potential). Also the 195 head will be only adequate for this build. If you're going to the expense of buying a stroker kit buy the 4" stroke crank. You will make a lot more torque and with the right topend components still turn some rpm's. If you're just going to be n/a a cast crank and I beam rods will be adequate. If you're going to add a power adder then I'd go forged assembly with h beams. To give you an example I have a customer at work who is a bracket racer(actually won nationals before). He's running a 408 with AFR 205's(the older AFR heads before they redesigned to the renegades). He has a solid roller cam( over 250 duration @.050 w/ .621 lift)carb/single plane intake and some custom 1 7/8"-3 1/2" collector headers. He had the motor dyno'd(engine dyno not a chassis dyno). It made just over 600 hp and he runs consistent 9.80's. Now this obviously is a drag car. I just wanted to give an example of what the potential is. A milder build would still make a great street/strip monster.

loyalblue · May 30, 2015

That is some good info, I appreciate your time...I'm definitely getting an education through all this. Once I get closer to getting a cam I'll get that number from you. I'm gonna do a little research on parts, get the block, have it spec'd and cleaned and then I'll start putting the pieces of the rotating assembly together. You've given me a good place to start...thanks again.

Progress Thread Starting New Build

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It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

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At least it is lumpy...

At least it is lumpy...

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

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It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

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Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

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Member

At least it is lumpy...

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At least it is lumpy...

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