Stiff (broken?) Suspension

[90sickfox]

@MFE92 I stand kind of corrected. I did research and found this...

That spring broke from rust... It caused very small fractures in the silicone mixed spring steel

That caused the spring to break. The break shortened the spring...which caused the stiffer ride. As a spring shortens its rate goes up disproportionate to the length cut. 1/3 cut off a spring doesn't decrease the spring rate but increases it.

This spring wasn't damage molecularly by the rust in the unbroken section.

Rust only increases the ability for the surface cracks to penetrate and compromise the spring. You would think the spring would get softer as the surface cracks reduced the diameter of the spring.

I've witnessed several cars that rode harsh...good bushings and all. On my car ( 67 Buick Electra ) I replaced the shocks but the harshness didn't go away until I changed the springs. Since then I always try to replace springs and shocks together on any car I work on if the customers budget allows.

Who knows what that car went through before I bought it.

Just wanted to share what I found out. It could very well be another reason for the harsh ride. I could be wrong ( wouldn't be the first time )

Its kinda like the old tale of valve springs getting weak from sitting...but folks fire them up after sitting several decades with no problems.

I'm at a loss on this issue....but I definetly don't want to pass along bad info.

I was an engineering major in college....but jeesh that was a long time ago

 

[2007_Crown_Vic]

Cool information. I will report back what I find once the parts have been changed. I think a broken spring would be doubtful unless both broke in the same spot on both sides because the harshness it consistent on both sides. I assume there would be a lot more noise if a spring or two was broken too. If they have somehow stiffened up or frozen in a compressed position from sitting for so long I assume it will be a lot shorter than the new spring. I will post a side by side picture of it vs the new spring if there is anything noticeably off with it. If the strut seems really stuck or stiff I will report that too. I am confident it is one of the two but if I find something really odd with the ball joints or control arm bushings I will let you guys know about that too.

I am eager to dig into this and get to the bottom of the issue. These parts can't get here soon enough, lol.

 

[2007_Crown_Vic]

Hi guys. I have the new springs, struts and ball joints. I got the car up in the air and wheels off. Then I noticed a couple things that seem strange, at least to me. There seems to be something in the spring. It is soft and just sort of in there. I wasn't too worried about what that was, but then the second thing I noticed has me confused. It is only on the passenger side and it looks like some sort of threaded connection between two of the coils. I tried to get a picture of it as best I could.

Is this normal and stock, and if so what is the purpose? It is in the third picture

 

[Dan02gt]

The little rubber "bag" in the spring is just there to reduce NVH from what I've heard and you don't need to worry about reusing it.

I see the other thing you are talking about and have no clue what that is. Looks like something you would use to jack a truck up. Definitely could make it ride like crap.

 

[90sickfox]

That's an old style spring spacer...used to raise the suspension. I haven't seen those in a long long time.

That would cause some harsh riding for sure. It'll also making the car feel unstable with it being on only one side.

The rubber round piece inside the spring is factory...should be in both sides. Doesn't really make a difference if removed though.

 

[2007_Crown_Vic]

Ok, good to know. Strange that this spacer thing is on the car at all, especially only on one side. If it isn't supposed to be there then I will get them out and not worry about it. But before I can even get there I have to get the stubborn bolt of the top of the strut. It looks like there is a notch in the top to stop it from spinning while you wrench it off but I'm not having much luck. I worry about cranking on it too hard. It feels like I am going to rip the rubber piece in there.

Thanks guys.

 

[2007_Crown_Vic]

Well, I got the first strut out and I think it is dead, lol. I pushed it down to see how long it took to come back up and how freely it moved. It isn't seized and did move, it just never came back up. It came back slowly about a half inch, then just stopped. So I think this combined with the strange spring situation is likely what was causing such a harsh ride. I am looking forward to the test drive after the new ball joints, springs and struts, it is probably going to feel like a new car.

 

[90sickfox]

To keep from spinning the old struts you can put a pair of five grips on the shaft. Don't do that with the new ones unless its way near the top. If you put grooves in the shaft it'll eat the rubber seal in the strut.

Your ride is going to be 10 times better.

 

[General karthief]

I've seen the guys at the shop use an impact to zip them off.

 

[Mustang5L5]

Impact makes the job easier.


Between that spring spacer and the blown struts, car should ride much better

 

[2007_Crown_Vic]

I hope so, I now have the spring out too... and am still alive, lol. That was fairly nerve racking. All that is left is the ball joint and then put it all back together, well, and then repeat on the other side. I think I have learned a few things to make the second time easier though. Too bad I had to run out for a few hours, I could probably be done by now.

I am just trying to decide if I should put that rubber sleeve thing back in the new spring. I can't see it hurting anything. I would just hate to get it all back together and find out there is an important reason it should be there.

 

[Mustang5L5]

It's just there for NVH. Mine is long gone. Entire car is loud enough, I didn't notice a difference

 

[2007_Crown_Vic]

Ok, so maybe I will leave them out. I think I will quit for the day. That ball joint is really pissing me off, lol. The old one came out easy enough, but the new one will not go in straight. After the press is on, you really can't see much so I have no idea if it is straight or not. I will try again with fresh nerves tomorrow morning.

Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions!

 

[90sickfox]

Its not a bad idea to take the whole control arm off and take it to a shop to press the ball joints in. Don't go to the counter...pull right around to the bay doors. I'm sure someone somewhere will press them in for a very cheap price.

The issue is the rounded top edge isn't level...so a ball joint press always wants to tilt. I knew a guy that ground down a ball joint press cup to match the angle in our control arms.

I'm a master mechanic and work on cars every day all day for the past 20yrs. I still hate mustang ball joints. If you look at my thread you'll see where I screwed mine up...and ended up putting the 4 cylinder control arms ( with good ball joints ) on my car. That whole situation made me

 

[2007_Crown_Vic]

Yeah, that is why I quit for the day. I find it is much better to just take some time off to think about it and do some research. Apparently this isn't just a Mustang thing. I have a few ideas of my own and found some other tips that will probably help. I will try again tomorrow morning and likely get it. I think even if I take the control arm off and use the press upside down it will help a lot. The issue I think it just the bad angle combined with fighting gravity to get the whole assembly on. If the control arm was off and flipped over I think I can get it.

The other thing that I found and was backed by internet searching was that the press doesn't sit flush on the arm so it naturally wants to go in at an angle. Some said they ground down one of the sleeves to make it go in straight, but if you have a rented tool like me and can't do that, I can try to shim the press up on the low side with whatever is handy, like a flat head screw driver.

I think tomorrow morning with a fresh set of nerves I can get it. It may take a lot longer than it should but I will get there. The nice thing is after this side is done the next should go a lot better. I have already found out a lot of what not to do, or what to do ahead of others things.

Even with the set backs and frustration I am enjoying myself. I haven't really had a decent car to work on in a long time. Usually all repairs were out of necessity and had to be done quick because the cars were needed daily. If for some reason I can't get this done by Monday, no big deal - the Crown Victoria is still insured and will do until this one is done. Nowhere near as fun, but gets me to work and back. It is it's own kind of enjoyable - it is like driving my living room around compared to the Mustang, and rides like a cloud, lol.

 

[2007_Crown_Vic]

I finally got the car out today to see how it drives after all the work. It is so smooth now! Just what I was looking for. I after fighting with the spring to get them out, I thought installing them would be easier - not even close. Even with the terrible roads we have here I was wishing I had just got the lowering springs. Same for the ball joint. I had the press and thought that would be easy but it kept going in at an angle.

Now that it is all done and has the feel I was looking for it was all worth it, but during the time of handling loaded springs and wrestling them into place it sure didn't seem like it would be, lol.

I do think that the springs stiffened over time. Blown struts like it had I don't think would have made it ride like it did. Other cars I had with bad struts or shocks was really bouncy because you are basically riding on springs, but this felt like a rock solid link between the wheel and car. I'm sure that weird spacer thing that was put in on the passenger side didn't help anything either, speaking of which, here are a couple more pictures of it out of the car. I have never seen anything like it, but I assume it was some home made adjustment, just not sure why you would only do it to one side. In the second picture you can see that it sort of makes the spring bow out a bit so it was for sure applying constant pressure.

 

[90sickfox]

That's great that you got it together !!!

Lowering springs are nice but the factory springs feel so good. What's next on the list ???

 

[2007_Crown_Vic]

Well, I was wondering what your opinions are about alignments after this work. I have read some say you have to and some say you don't. I didn't even disconnect the tie-rods and someone said that with struts like these that don't have a slotted hole but just a circle hole the worst you can do is throw the camber out a degree or two. Even on sites like LMR where they have how to videos they don't mention anything about an alignment afterwards.

The steering wheel is still straight and the car doesn't pull in either direction. About all I can see is that the wheels appear slightly cambered, but I can't recall if it was like that before or not. Did these cars have a slight camber angle?

Other than a possible alignment, my current to do list is new MAC cat-back exhaust, coolant level sensor (low coolant light comes on when it is hot out), one of those "shorty" antennas, and new rims/tires.

I think that is all for the immediate list. Depending on what the new exhaust sounds like, I may get BBK shorty unequal headers and if it still isn't what I am looking for disable the smog pump and replace the factory catted H-pipe with the BBK off road H-pipe.

If I had the money I would like to change everything to 5 bolt and do the rear disc brake swap while I am at it. Maybe one day, the above list is getting quite large and expensive as is, lol.

 

[Dan02gt]

You will definitely want to have it aligned after your install. These cars do come with some camber from the factory. Lowering it will add a little more. If it's to much you will need caster/camber plates. They were able to get mine close enough without them. Lowering it will also increase your toe out so you will want to have that corrected. In fact when I installed my bump steer kit I was shocked how much changing the ride hight by 1.25" affects the toe.

 

[2007_Crown_Vic]

Yeah, I was thinking for the $100 it will cost I might as well just do it. It is still the stock setup so hopefully no additional parts are needed to get it done. I didn't even remove the three bolts on the shock tower area, just the single bolt in the middle that hold the strut itself in. Really all the could have changed is the little bit of play there is when the two large lower strut bolts are loose.