Stock Discs vs. Baer

The Dan · Oct 27, 2004

My 65 FB has factory disc's. Here are my 2 plans for brakes.

1. Upgrade the master cylinder to a dual bowl and run SS lines front and back.

or

2. Get a Baer front disc set up.

In both cases I'm keeping rear drums.

The question? Are the stock discs terribly inferrior to the Baer setups?

I'm thinking for the difference in parts price, and since I already have disc's, that plan 1 is the way to go, but if the Baer's are going to blow the stock breaks away performance wise, then I'd prefer the Baer's. Since modding the engine, I want to make sure I have the stopping power. The Fruit Jar isn't the most trustworthy designed master cylinder, and I don't want to be a victim of it!

HistoricMustang · Oct 27, 2004

Go here: www.historicmustang.com and then go with your #1.

Standard disc or Granada's up front are fine. Rear drums have plenty of stopping power for these things that are light in the rear.

Spend the bucks elsewhere!

Pretty simple stuff if you are on a budget!

Others?

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

Route666 · Oct 27, 2004

You'll need drum spindles for a Baer kit as well, it probably won't be worth the cost over stock discs.

65fsbkhipo · Oct 27, 2004

Slap on some slotted and crossed drilled rotors for better braking. It is always a good idea to convert to the dual reservior system in case a line breaks, at least you'll have either front or rear left.

Ronstang · Oct 27, 2004

Route666 said:
You'll need drum spindles for a Baer kit as well, it probably won't be worth the cost over stock discs.

No he won't. He has a 65 and there is no difference between the drum and disc spindles....they are exaclty the same.

There is nothing wrong with the factory discs. If they are not stopping to your expectains then they need some attenion. A dual master cylinder is a nice upgrade for safety but make sure you get one with the proper piston diameter or you will increase the pedal effort and decrease the efficiency of the brakes. I have the same discs you have on my Shelby and it stops incredibly well even without a power booster.....in fact most people are amazed at how fast I can brind it down from 100+ mph. You already have good brakes so don't waste your moneyupgrading them but rather on rebuilding them.

Ronstang · Oct 27, 2004

65fsbkhipo said:
Slap on some slotted and crossed drilled rotors for better braking. It is always a good idea to convert to the dual reservior system in case a line breaks, at least you'll have either front or rear left.

I'm sorry, but slotted and crossdrilled rotors on a street car are nothing more than a marketing farce.....especially on vented rotors.

iamlance · Oct 27, 2004

They sure do look neat tho!!!

Ronstang · Oct 27, 2004

iamlance said:
They sure do look neat tho!!!

Bling Bling doesn't do much but deplete your wallet. Spend your money elsewhere.

65fsbkhipo · Oct 27, 2004

Ronstang said:
No he won't. He has a 65 and there is no difference between the drum and disc spindles....they are exaclty the same.

There is nothing wrong with the factory discs. If they are not stopping to your expectains then they need some attenion. A dual master cylinder is a nice upgrade for safety but make sure you get one with the proper piston diameter or you will increase the pedal effort and decrease the efficiency of the brakes. I have the same discs you have on my Shelby and it stops incredibly well even without a power booster.....in fact most people are amazed at how fast I can brind it down from 100+ mph. You already have good brakes so don't waste your moneyupgrading them but rather on rebuilding them.

Oh, but he will. Slotted/Cross drilled rotors have proven braking efficiency and are fairly cheap relative to other major upgrades. Granted, he won't be doing 100MPH from light to light but it does give you more stopping power period. Versus having to spend a few hundred for a nice system, a couple hundred can get the same performance, given he has the right pads...what are you using in your shelby, semi metallic?

Piston diameter may make a negliable difference, but brake piston throw definitely WILL, and it's a matter of fractions of an inch. Make sure you have the right push rod for the conversion to dual reservoirs.

Jester67 · Oct 27, 2004

All the above.

Route666 · Oct 27, 2004

Ronstang said:
No he won't. He has a 65 and there is no difference between the drum and disc spindles....they are exaclty the same.

Well you learn something new every day!

I'm still of the mind that over stock disc it wouldn't be worth the cost of the kit. Especially if you want the brakes for safety. Stuff like Baer brakes would kill stock stuff on a track, where they are used hard several times per minute, but if all you want is something to stop the car in one emergency stop once in a blue moon, there won't be much difference from stock. Performance brakes are for sustained heavy braking.

That's how I see it anyway, does that sound about right?

66HertzClone · Oct 27, 2004

65fsbkhipo said:
Oh, but he will. Slotted/Cross drilled rotors have proven braking efficiency and are fairly cheap relative to other major upgrades. Granted, he won't be doing 100MPH from light to light but it does give you more stopping power period. Versus having to spend a few hundred for a nice system, a couple hundred can get the same performance, given he has the right pads...what are you using in your shelby, semi metallic?

Piston diameter may make a negliable difference, but brake piston throw definitely WILL, and it's a matter of fractions of an inch. Make sure you have the right push rod for the conversion to dual reservoirs.

I am having some trouble with the "piston diameter" statement you have made. Given that any movement of the piston rod moves fluid thru the lines and then caliper pistons and pads (which are already in contact with the rotors) will begin braking. Simple physics state that a larger diameter master cylinder piston moved the same distance that a smaller piston moves will move more fluid, thus increasing the pressure at the caliper. So if this is true, piston diameter does indeed have a big effect on braking power.

While crossdrilled and grooved rotors do increase efficency, if you already have rotors that are within specs, how much of an increase in braking will a street driven vehicle realize for the investment? Would the cost of these rotors be better spent on someting else with a more measurable return for the investment?

Great68 · Oct 27, 2004

My stock discs on my '68 can't even lock up the front tires when I mash my foot to the floor

All brake the brake hoses, power booster, calipers are brand new to boot.

gp001 · Oct 27, 2004

65fsbkhipo said:
Oh, but he will. Slotted/Cross drilled rotors have proven braking efficiency and are fairly cheap relative to other major upgrades. Granted, he won't be doing 100MPH from light to light but it does give you more stopping power period.

You could not be more wrong. The sole purpose of slotting/cross drilling rotors is to allow gases trapped during braking. However, with todays brake pad materials this is no longer the case. Besides, the ONLY time you would ever even see the conditions to create these gasses are under extreme braking, like on a race track. But at those extreme conditions you are generating a lot of heat from the pad/rotor friction. The rotor acts as the heat sink and dissipates the heat. By drilling the rotors you are removing surface area as well as material thereby limiting not only the swept area of the pad but the rotors ability to dissipate the heat.

Cross Drilled/ Slotted = Bling

DarkBuddha · Oct 27, 2004

What a good thread! Lots of good but different opinions, and all have their own valid points. Here is my contribution... two things really.

First, stock brakes can perform quite well when in proper "tune" (i.e. rotors within spec, calipers operating correctly, adequate fluid pressure, no leaks), but if you'r gonna spend money on something, brake pads will make a big difference. Don't buy parts store crap, and don't go to Midas for their "lifetime" brakes. Do some research and look into some of the good companies that make performance brake pads. Determine your needs (climate, temp range, etc.) and the kind of driving you'll be doing (street, road race, a bit of both?) and then call the company and get their recommendations. Check Hawk, EBC, or Raybestos.

Second, buy good sticky tires. Tires will also make a huge difference in braking performance since brakes can't be any more efficient that the tires will allow. Sticky tires will decrease the likely hood of wheel lock and help reduce braking distances.

One last thing... suspension setup also heavily effects braking performance. Control of weight transfer at braking has a huge influence on braking performance since it is the thing that determines how much each wheel's brake contributes to stopping. Shift a lot of weight forward and you put a lot of force on the front brakes and make the rear brakes less effective and more likely to lock.

I guess my point is that it's all a system, so it all has to work synergetically.

Hope this helps.

SadbutTrue · Oct 28, 2004

i have stock-style discs (granada swap, i do believe) on front and drums in back, dual reservoir, manual brakes, nothing fancy. Stops me just fine.

If anything, i will get better tires and I periodically like to check my pads and the rest to make sure its up to par. So i believe my brakes are as good as they'll ever need to be...

HistoricMustang · Oct 28, 2004

Buddha. Some very good points that the rest of us missed and sense they fall in the "needed" catagory they do not add much additional cost. Very good and a lesson to us all about being "too focused" in one area.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

BAD67FUN · Oct 28, 2004

OH MY GOSH!!! I feel like such a VICTIM!!

I've been betrayed and bamboozled into thinking my Baer brakes are nothing but bling bling and just not worth it. Ha Ha....

Opinions are like... well ya all know the story. But really, the big cross drilled and slotted rotors ARE alot of show for most of the people that buy them. But for some that's the whole point. Some though actually like to USE them. Now I can't attest for how much better they are over factory disks because I went straight up from all four drums. But ya know it's like alot of things about these cars. They're toys... so what if there's excess.

Can you have enough horsepower? Can you receive too many compliments?

But back to the original question. It does NOT sound like this particular person needs the Baer set up because I didn't see anything in regards to performance driving. Safety was his concern. So in that matter it's my opinion for him to keep the factory disks. Besides... drilled and slotted rotors would look kind of half assed if you still got drum brakes on the rear.

Ronstang said:
I'm sorry, but slotted and crossdrilled rotors on a street car are nothing more than a marketing farce.....especially on vented rotors.

2nd Mustang · Oct 28, 2004

Great68 said:
My stock discs on my '68 can't even lock up the front tires when I mash my foot to the floor

All brake the brake hoses, power booster, calipers are brand new to boot.

I rebuilt my 67 coupe"s brakes, new calipers (stock 4 pistons), rebuilt power booster and MC and also rebuilt the rear drum brakes. The front discs lock up too well when mashing the brake pedal, wish I had anti-lock brakes. Your MC to booster push rod might need adjustment.

Cbarton · Oct 28, 2004

Dan, is your car out of the shop yet? If so, how is the motor running?

Chris Barton

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