Suggestion on Combo

blue302stang · Jan 23, 2006

I am planning on a new combo for my 93 GT. It will be a stock block 306. I was planning on running a new pair of twisted wedge cnc 185's, with a comp cam xe274hr, and a rpm II or Track heat intake. Will this combo make good power, and be streetable?

srothfuss · Jan 23, 2006

Might be a little too big for N/A street. Unless you add a S/C

poneypower89 · Jan 23, 2006

Might be too *high-end* powered for fun on the street... I would try making a more modest torqey combo if I were you (it would be best for the street). Almost everything u mentioned in ur combo needs a lot of rpms and open space to make power.

blue302stang · Jan 23, 2006

would a set of the older non cnc'd twisted wedge heads help out? I was also thinking of doing a 331 stroker with it, but forced induction won't be coming for a while.

srothfuss · Jan 23, 2006

There are a lot of threads about what you want to do. Before we get into it though it's important to know your ultimate goal for YOUR Mustang.

The stock 5.0L block can only safely handle 400RWHP. 425RWHP is as high as I would go because after that the block is known to split in half (literally.) So the first question is do you want it to be under or over that limit. If you go over, you will need a Dart block but then your HP potential is also much greater and so is the outpouring of $$ from the wallet.

To build a really great street machine under the limit of the stock block. Look for cylinder heads under 170CC and pick a smaller intake like the Edelbrock Performer / FRPP Cobra or the GT-40 intakes. But again there are a bazillion threads so look around and see if you can find anything that fits your needs.

IntenseBlue · Jan 23, 2006

**** a Dart block at that power level. If it doesn't see the track much and doesn't have a very soft tire, I doubt you'll break the stock block under 500whp.

Grn92LX · Jan 23, 2006

A guy over on corral used to run a similar combo and made 371 rwhp UNDER 6000 rpm So it won't be a high rpm only car like internet racers will tell you. It depends on the camshaft. It held good power up top and made good low end.

He ran the cnc TW heads, holley manifold, FTI cam, 1 3/4" LT's, 3" exhaust. It made good low end torque. I have the dyno sheet on my pc, so yeah

The 306 you have with those heads will make LOTS of power if you do it right. I would not waste my time with the 274xe cam, get a custom cam. Use a probe or similar piston so you have adaquaate clearance for a real cam.

blue302stang · Jan 23, 2006

Grn92LX said:
A guy over on corral used to run a similar combo and made 371 rwhp UNDER 6000 rpm So it won't be a high rpm only car like internet racers will tell you. It depends on the camshaft. It held good power up top and made good low end.

He ran the cnc TW heads, holley manifold, FTI cam, 1 3/4" LT's, 3" exhaust. It made good low end torque. I have the dyno sheet on my pc, so yeah

The 306 you have with those heads will make LOTS of power if you do it right. I would not waste my time with the 274xe cam, get a custom cam. Use a probe or similar piston so you have adaquaate clearance for a real cam.

Was this on a 306? Do you know his sn on the Corral?

I am planning on running a good set of pistons that have the proper clearance for a good cam, and i have heard of cars making alot more than 500hp on a stock block and never had a single problem. It will mainly be a steet car, but will also see plenty of track action.

Grn92LX · Jan 23, 2006

It was a pump gas n/a 306. His name is 86cobra on corral. Haven't seen him post in a while. He was one of few smarter guys that went on the forums.

5spd GT · Jan 23, 2006

blue302 - That car wasn't that streetable as you would think. It had some different driving characteristics and missed a few accessories. I'm sure the vaccum for the power brakes was great to...oh wait he didn't really need them since the setup was for primarily a track car

You can get a nice streetable h/c/i 302/306 up to around 320rwhp and then you will start getting that fine line between finicky people like me and others.

willys1 · Jan 23, 2006

Keith Black sells a 375HP 306 for about 4200..Very streetable.

Grn92LX · Jan 24, 2006

5spd GT said:
blue302 - That car wasn't that streetable as you would think. It had some different driving characteristics and missed a few accessories. I'm sure the vaccum for the power brakes was great to...oh wait he didn't really need them since the setup was for primarily a track car

Incorrect, i've talked to him. It was perfectly streetable. Like I said it peaked UNDER 6000 rpm So you don't need brakes after busting out a 117 mph pass?!?! What about after you drive the car home from the track?!? Not everyone is nit picky like you are. Some actually wanna win

Blue302, PM me if you need any help designing this combo

blue302stang · Jan 24, 2006

5spd GT said:
blue302 - That car wasn't that streetable as you would think. It had some different driving characteristics and missed a few accessories. I'm sure the vaccum for the power brakes was great to...oh wait he didn't really need them since the setup was for primarily a track car

You can get a nice streetable h/c/i 302/306 up to around 320rwhp and then you will start getting that fine line between finicky people like me and others.

I am pretty sure anything can be made streetable. The shop by me has a 1200hp stock block 03 cobra running an 88mm turbo that will idle, and run like a stock car.

5spd GT · Jan 24, 2006

blue302 - Definetly if you put enough money into it, no doubt.

Grn92lx - I wouldn't be talking: 115mph hehe. I'm not impressed with all the "go fast parts" you got. I don't think its your driving either...

Must be those "tiny" gears and all that weight you have

So I like to lose?

Grn92LX · Jan 24, 2006

5 spd, the same could be said for yourself and your $1,500 heads but I wouldn't go there

Knowing how to make power vs making that power run at the track are 2 completly different things. Knowing how to create power is just a gift I have.

Lets see: a piss poor 1.996 60' (barf), rich a/f tune (low 12's up top), crossing the line almost 1000 rpm's too early (crossed @ 5800 vs the 6700 I need) due to the dead gears I have (have 3,73 desperatly need 4.30) and being 2 years rusty. I'd say 115 is decent considering. When/if I finally set my rear up properly it should run decent. I am thinking of getting a pair of mickey thompson dr's as well. Should do around 120 mph which is the potential for 10.90's which was my goal (my mph goal) Right now its got 11.50 potential by the mph, a little slow for my liking but see the excuses. One thing I can tell you is its a lot quicker on the street. Too bad you'll never get to see that.
Blue302, I got your PM and i'll set you up in a few!

2000xp8 · Jan 24, 2006

I haven't 86cobra in some time, he probably had the most powerful NA 306 i've seen in any forum. IMO, you can't expect to duplicate his numbers, yes it could happen and would be great, but i wouldn't count on it.

And i believe his heads were TEA motorsports, cnc wedges.

On a 306, i'd just use the regular wedges with some mild work, bowl cleanup, valve job, springs. Then use a custom cam, rpm intake.

If you feel that the car truely has more in it, or get a stroker, you can pull them off, cnc them, and sell the rpm intake for a II.

Or, just scrap the 306 idea, make it a 331 or 347, then use the cnc wedges with the rpm II, it will be a beast, probably a mid 11 car.

And sorry, a 347 that runs 115mph, is not the fault of the driver or the gears, it's the engine. Figure if it hooks, the time will go down, but so will the mph.
I know guys that have cracked 115 in street cars with stock shortblocks.

Grn92LX · Jan 24, 2006

2000xp8 said:
I haven't 86cobra in some time, he probably had the most powerful NA 306 i've seen in any forum. IMO, you can't expect to duplicate his numbers, yes it could happen and would be great, but i wouldn't count on it.

And i believe his heads were TEA motorsports, cnc wedges.

On a 306, i'd just use the regular wedges with some mild work, bowl cleanup, valve job, springs. Then use a custom cam, rpm intake.

If you feel that the car truely has more in it, or get a stroker, you can pull them off, cnc them, and sell the rpm intake for a II.

Or, just scrap the 306 idea, make it a 331 or 347, then use the cnc wedges with the rpm II, it will be a beast, probably a mid 11 car.

And sorry, a 347 that runs 115mph, is not the fault of the driver or the gears, it's the engine. Figure if it hooks, the time will go down, but so will the mph.
I know guys that have cracked 115 in street cars with stock shortblocks.

86cobra had the older style TEA185cc TW's. Now they're improved and they start out as a smaller port to make the cnc'ing more precise.

This is probably the best bump gas n/a 306 I remember seeing, 402rwhp: http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=80685&highlight=torque+monster

And you're incredibly incorrect. My car runs a low mph due to the reason I said. Also when MY car hooks, the mph goes up, when I spin, the mph drops. I got a buttload of slips in my drawer so this is personal experience.

Blue302, stick with what you had planned

blue302stang · Jan 25, 2006

well i started ordering the parts. I have a holley systemax, and set of TEA TW's on the way, and am about to call ed curtis to work out a nice little cam. Once i get the block back from the machine shop i am going to start the build up.

5spd GT · Jan 25, 2006

Grn92LX said:
5 spd, the same could be said for yourself and your $1,500 heads but I wouldn't go there

Go there...doesn't bother me. My heads were $1,550 total I believe. I got upgraded springs/upgraded ARP studs/viton seal upgrade with it. What's your point? Oh yeah, those parts add power I'm going to get thicker studs next time so I can get more power

Grn92LX said:
Knowing how to make power vs making that power run at the track are 2 completly different things. Knowing how to create power is just a gift I have.

You don't have a gift. Lol, I hope that was sarcasm. Your idea of power is "bigger bigger bigger". That is your definition. Not mine. I like useable power

In my case when I have bad traction my mph goes up. You obviously don't know your car very well to know how fast your going in which gear to shift it where you don't bog or overrev. Keep driving...

You were so saying your were going to run 118mph "as is"...but you got 115.xx (low). Confidence got shifted eh?

Grn92LX said:
Lets see: a piss poor 1.996 60' (barf), rich a/f tune (low 12's up top), crossing the line almost 1000 rpm's too early (crossed @ 5800 vs the 6700 I need) due to the dead gears I have (have 3,73 desperatly need 4.30) and being 2 years rusty. I'd say 115 is decent considering. When/if I finally set my rear up properly it should run decent. I am thinking of getting a pair of mickey thompson dr's as well. Should do around 120 mph which is the potential for 10.90's which was my goal (my mph goal) Right now its got 11.50 potential by the mph, a little slow for my liking but see the excuses. One thing I can tell you is its a lot quicker on the street. Too bad you'll never get to see that.

For your street/drag car. That isn't to impressive.

Grn92lx - My car had 164k on a daily driven (semi-beat) bottomend. I had a slightly slipping clutch, I have no tune, and full accessories unlike you. I also have a race weight of 3400lbs. 210lb driver. Only took it to the track with actual traction once. I didn't have drag radials before. I ran 20psi on that run and ran straight off the street. I literally pulled up to the line.

Your car isn't any faster on the street than it is at the track...that is hilarious. What, does the different pavement make you faster. Do you trap 125mph from lightpoll to lightpoll.

I also have "tiny" gears, "tiny" maf, "tiny" tb, and tiny intakes/heads/cam according to you

I also have much less compression than you, and "heavy" flywheel...and you only trap 6mph faster than me with all that is "wrong" with my car

Oh did I mention I had a worn out 302 and you have a fresh 347 as well.

Way to put together a combo:Zip2:

blue302stang · Jan 25, 2006

I have one last setup question? I am planning on running a little higher CR, do you think 11:1 would be too much?

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