Summit brand piston rings top gap totally off coming in at .028!!!

ryan7662 · Aug 25, 2011

Ok I ordered a set of summit brand piston rings and the top gap is .028!?!?!?! I know there's nothing wrong with the bore it's a fresh .060 overbore on a 351w block. I had a set of speed pro cast iron rings that I messed up a few oil control rings because I was using a old adj. ring compressor(got a tapered one now). I put one of the old speed pro cast rings in and measured a .016 on the top ring gap so I know nothings wrong with cylinder. After messing up a few of the speed pro oil rings I decided to just froget it and get a set of summit moly rings pn#sum-133-m139-60.

I used a piston to push the top ring down evenly in the bore about 3-4 inches down. I tried a .016 feeler tab(brand new feeler gauge from oreilly's) and it was like throwin a pencil down a open hallway. I went up from there and the guage didn't get tight until I put a .028 feeler tab in!!!!!!! What the hell man that's way too friggin loose!!!!! I should have a .016 on top(.004xbore) and a .020(.005xbore) on the second ring. And my second rings are measuring a little tighter than .020 more like a .019.

I contacted summit through livechat and they said it must've been a packaging error at the warehouse. The second rings were pretty uniform and I have a ring filer so I could've opened them up a little bit to be .020 exactly. But DAMN I can't add metal to the top rings that are measuring .028!!! When you stack the top rings together you can see that they don't even match each other and have completely different gaps!!! The guy said he'd have UPS come pick the old ones up and that a new set will ship out tomorrow and be to me between tue-wed. I REALLY wanted to put my motor together this weekend but now I have to wait till next weekend because of this and I'm pissed. And from the looks of it how do I know the new ones will be any better??? I've done a lot of buisness with summit racing that's why I wanted to give their rings a chance. If the new set comes in and is screwed up like these I don't know if I'll be able to ever order from them again. I'll find myself becoming a jegs fan real quick and in a hurry!

281pony · Aug 25, 2011

sight unseen, on a part like that.. they are paying for return shipping and sending new ones prior, pretty good service if you ask me.

**** happens, believe me i know.. be happy you have someone willing to address the issue.

ryan7662 · Aug 25, 2011

281pony said:
sight unseen, on a part like that.. they are paying for return shipping and sending new ones prior, pretty good service if you ask me.

**** happens, believe me i know.. be happy you have someone willing to address the issue.

Yeah if the new ones come in ok I'll be fine and praise them all up and down the place. But really man how could this be so bad? I have to think having a gap so much bigger on the top than the bottom would've caused some serious problems since it's suppose to be the other way around to prevent ring flutter. And I'm mainly pissed cause I have to wait till next weekend now and was looking forward to getting my 351w assembled this weekend.

351 82GT · Aug 25, 2011

I would have got another set of speed pro rings. Summit brand is junk in my opinion but I'm sure there are people that swear by that brand. Summit brand is like the generic version of the real thing but that's just my opnion...

ryan7662 · Aug 25, 2011

And your right man sh@t happens it just seems to be happening a lot more to me recently on this build. First I had a oil control ring pop out on me, then I had compression ring crack when I tried to file it(with a ring filer) and now this. Starting to think "murphy's law" should be "ryan's law" I just can't get ahead no matter how careful I am.

I'm probably directing too much fustration at summit if my new rings come in and are good I'll praise them to no end.

ryan7662 · Aug 25, 2011

351 82GT said:
I would have got another set of speed pro rings. Summit brand is junk in my opinion but I'm sure there are people that swear by that brand. Summit brand is like the generic version of the real thing but that's just my opnion...

Yeah well I might just have to do that I'm gonna wait and see what the new ones look like.

ryan7662 · Aug 30, 2011

AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

summit rings are crapola!!!!!!!!!!! They are actually repackaged hastings rings and the replacement set they sent me is just like the old one with the wrong size top rings. LUCKILY I bought a set of NOS speed pro moly rings on egay for $20 shipped. The copyright says 1996 but the box is perfect shape, rings aren't rusted out and best of all THEY HAVE THE CORRECT GAP ON THEM. The only thing is there're moly coating isn't as bright and lusterous as the hastings rings but you know what screw it their just gonna have to do. I called summit and there're gonna give me a refund(yes I was polite and didn't chew the guy out) but I'm gonna take a pic later tonight of the two rings so you can see what I'm talking about. The second rings and oil rings between the two sets are a match but the hastings top rings are clearly smaller overall then the speed pros.

Rick 91GT · Aug 31, 2011

Let me share a little info... There are only a few companies that actually manufacture rings, Hastings being a HUGE supplier. Most of the other compaines just private label them... Summit does not make them, the only Summit brand products that they may make are the Trick Flow stuff, since they own them.

What you get in most cases from Summit is not a sub par product, but the advatage of them being a large corp with buying power...same people are making them in many cases.

The correct way to check ring gap 1" down from the top of the bore....otherwise if your bores have taper you will see it in the ring gap when you check. You can use the piston and a old ring to push the new ones into the bore to check...

If the bores have that much taper you have larger issues...

Just my $0.02 as a engine builder.

90lxcoupe · Aug 31, 2011

So you bought the cheaper part and now are complaining about it. Welcome to hot rodding, sometimes parts dont fit. Some companies would have told you that since you mangled up the rings that you own them now, you should be thanking summit for taking them back

ryan7662 · Aug 31, 2011

90lxcoupe said:
So you bought the cheaper part and now are complaining about it. Welcome to hot rodding, sometimes parts dont fit. Some companies would have told you that since you mangled up the rings that you own them now, you should be thanking summit for taking them back

First off I didn't mangle the rings up dude I'm not a idiot. I carefully slipped it in and shoved it down gently with the piston. After I pulled the ring out and wiped it off there was no sign it had ever been installed. And secondly this is just a stock rebuild on this 351w I'm putting in my 95 gt the most I'll build it up to is around 3-400hp so I can get good mileage. I wouldn't go cheap on a motor I had plans on running some serious power through. I am gonna build a 383 stroker for my 84 lx drag car project and am gonna go with a dart iron eagle block, billet crank, total seal gapless rings ect. Of course I wouldn't dream of going cheap on that motor since I'm going to be running a 98mm ball bearing turbo on it.

My intention was not to go "cheap" neccessarily I just didn't think I needed a high dollar set of rings for a mild 351w build. To be honest I would have gotten the high dollar rings had I known that I would have this much trouble. And I agree summit has great customer service BUT their shipping department should pay a little more attention. They sent me 3 sets of rings in a row and each time the top ring was for a different size piston. If they had simply opened the box of rings up and looked at them they could have clearly seen that the top rings were wrong. You would think after having something come back twice they'd check it out but I guess not.

ryan7662 · Aug 31, 2011

Rick 91GT said:
Let me share a little info... There are only a few companies that actually manufacture rings, Hastings being a HUGE supplier. Most of the other compaines just private label them... Summit does not make them, the only Summit brand products that they may make are the Trick Flow stuff, since they own them.

What you get in most cases from Summit is not a sub par product, but the advatage of them being a large corp with buying power...same people are making them in many cases.

The correct way to check ring gap 1" down from the top of the bore....otherwise if your bores have taper you will see it in the ring gap when you check. You can use the piston and a old ring to push the new ones into the bore to check...

If the bores have that much taper you have larger issues...

Just my $0.02 as a engine builder.

Yeah I see that now that they are hastings rings my only beef with summit is that they didn't even bother checking the replacement sets out before sending them back to me. I can't get a pic clear enough to show it but the top hastings ring is visibly smaller than the top speed pro ring. Even the second groove ring from the hastings set is visibly larger than the top hastings ring. The difference of the gap between the two is only suppose to be .004 so they should look the same by eyeballing them but their not the second ring is obviously larger.

The speed pro moly rings I got on ebay are good though their moly coat isn't as shiny but they have perfect gaps. The top ring has a good clean .016" gap and the second ring has a .020" gap so their fine. Plus I measured a .030" on the hastings top ring and a .020" on the second ring. The second ring and the oil control rings from the hastings set were always fine but the top ring was messed up in each set. I wanna say it was for a 4.030 bore and I'd be willing to bet they have quite a few messed up sets from my expirence with the last three sets.

ryan7662 · Aug 31, 2011

90lxcoupe said:
So you bought the cheaper part and now are complaining about it. Welcome to hot rodding, sometimes parts dont fit. Some companies would have told you that since you mangled up the rings that you own them now, you should be thanking summit for taking them back

And yes I would like to thank their customer service department but whoever is charge of shipping these rings should be more attentive in a situation like this. I spent a month playing musical packages with them trying to get a matching piston ring set to no avail. I have a piston ring filer if the set they had sent had too small of a gap I could've worked with em but I can't do anything to a .030" gapped top ring. It would've been pissing oil into my cylinders like there was no tomorrowee:

Summit brand piston rings top gap totally off coming in at .028!!!

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