Suspension gurus, few questions

281pony · Aug 15, 2010

i just purchased an MM panhard bar. i am debating on installing this now, or wating to do it and the torque arm at the same time. my setup as of right now;

tubular k member, tubular control arms, cobra brakes, j&m hd weight jacker rears (heim rears, 3 pc poly fronts), fms hd uppers, front coil overs, rear springs. tq boxes welded, full length kenny brown subframes.

so i have the panhard and torque arm left to complete what i want. its a street/drag car. i drive it alot on the street and ive got over 60 passes in from 5 test and tune nights. i read on the hp ratings for the torque arms.

i am borderline now on the hp rating, but fall short by 50 ft lb on the torque ratings with my current gears. the guy at MM explained the difference in requirements from the standard duty and HD arms. i am thinking of just getting the standard strength one.

has anyone run this setup? do they under rate the hp rating/tq ratings for them? lastly, would you throw the panhard bar on before the torque arm for my street car or do both at once?

347HO · Aug 15, 2010

Post up your time slip or detail your race weight and mph @ 1320'.
Your incrementals are important here, so your time slip is needed.

What is the reason you can't install the panhard bar and torque arm at the same time?

281pony · Aug 15, 2010

i ran a 13.02 at 110.20 mph. with a 2.06 60' time. car makes 300/300 on a stingy dyno with a 3100 race weight with driver. 4:10 rear gear, i run street tires right now. i do have plans for more power, but nothing that will exceed the standard parameters by much. especially when i go back to a 355 gear.

i have just seen it mentioned by some, that you shouldnt install one without the other. (panhard and tq arm). i am aiming to just install my panhard for the time being. the torque arm will be purchased shortly either way. i just want to know the downside to only one at a time. also how much power guys are running with the standards.

the hd one costs 200 more initially, plus requires some exhaust mods the standard doesnt. so the difference of $300 bucks almost doubles the cost.

2000xp8 · Aug 15, 2010

The panhard and TA arm pretty much does nothing for drag racing.
In fact, the last car i witnessed that went from a 4 link to a TA phb setup from MM went slower in the quarter, faster mph, slower ET.

I have their panhard to go on, but i won't be doing the TA.

If you did decide to do it later, you may have to change spring rates. But it really doesn't have to be done together.

And yes, i know what the guys at MM will tell you.
It works for drag racing and their stuff is the best.

I do like their products and use them, i just don't like how they trash everyone else's products when you talk to a sales person.

Cobra912 · Aug 15, 2010

for the power you are making right now it's not gonna help you any, save your cash

281pony · Aug 15, 2010

its all i have left to do for my suspension mods. i thought the saying went "build your house on a good foundation". is there a reason why i wouldnt do this TA now with the panhard before im makin 400+ rwhp?

for the ride quality increase they claim, i'd be interested. i just want to knock out some to-do's. i want to make an educated decision, not just cause i dont have enough power. is that the only reason why i shouldnt do the torque arm?

Shaolin Crane · Aug 15, 2010

2000xp8 said:
The panhard and TA arm pretty much does nothing for drag racing.
In fact, the last car i witnessed that went from a 4 link to a TA phb setup from MM went slower in the quarter, faster mph, slower ET.

I have their panhard to go on, but i won't be doing the TA.

If you did decide to do it later, you may have to change spring rates. But it really doesn't have to be done together.

And yes, i know what the guys at MM will tell you.
It works for drag racing and their stuff is the best.

I do like their products and use them, i just don't like how they trash everyone else's products when you talk to a sales person.

Only company i have heard them badmouth is UPR and Granatelli. Jason himself said there is nothing wrong with Griggs and i couldnt go wrong either way. I chose MM since they were cheaper and griggs themselves said their parts are NOT meant for street use.

281pony said:
its all i have left to do for my suspension mods. i thought the saying went "build your house on a good foundation". is there a reason why i wouldnt do this TA now with the panhard before im makin 400+ rwhp?

for the ride quality increase they claim, i'd be interested. i just want to knock out some to-do's. i want to make an educated decision, not just cause i dont have enough power. is that the only reason why i shouldnt do the torque arm?

Whoever said a TA is bad for drag racing is wrong, TA setup is no different than say a 3rd link from EVM or team Z's third link except how it mounts to the car, most people who go TA choose too stiff of dampeners for drag racing, ive seen guys with TA's pull 1.89-1.90 60's on street tires.

Comes down to your goals, do you want a drag car or a drag/road course/street car?

And i'll say it now before some one else does, im an MM nutswinger blah blah blah

281pony · Aug 15, 2010

i want it to handle great, and perform at the drag strip when needed. i do not/wont autocross. i do alot of street driving and drag racing.

its a 50% dd style car, 50% race car i guess. from everything ive read, the TA would be a great investment for me. i just want to do my research now, pick one up or not, then close the book on my suspension mods.

moving back over to drivetrain/power.

347HO · Aug 15, 2010

I assume right now you have the factory 4-link?
If you convert to a 3-link (lowers + upper torque link) you'll need a device to maintain the rearend "center" position. This is the panhard bar's function and it's significant other, the watts link.
If you're not going to road race or even autocross... the 3-link or torque arm appears to be a waste of money.

There are a ton of 10 second stock suspended 4-link cars out there and are driven on the street.

Shaolin Crane · Aug 15, 2010

281pony said:
i want it to handle great, and perform at the drag strip when needed. i do not/wont autocross. i do alot of street driving and drag racing.

its a 50% dd style car, 50% race car i guess. from everything ive read, the TA would be a great investment for me. i just want to do my research now, pick one up or not, then close the book on my suspension mods.

moving back over to drivetrain/power.

Than the TA is for you, you'll be able to launch hard with slicks, pull corners harder than you ever thought possible in a fox. And im able to launch on the street and hook. You'll need to be careful though about what springs/dampeners you choose however.

347HO said:
I assume right now you have the factory 4-link?
If you convert to a 3-link (lowers + upper torque link) you'll need a device to maintain the rearend "center" position. This is the panhard bar's function and it's significant other, the watts link.
If you're not going to road race or even autocross... the 3-link or torque arm appears to be a waste of money.

There are a ton of 10 second stock suspended 4-link cars out there and are driven on the street.

I'll agree, if its a DEDICATED drag car that doesnt see much/any street time than a team z 3rd link, anti squat bar and solid bushing lowers would be the way to go, but if its still mostly a street car that he wants to handle as well, the TA has no second. Especially the unpredictability of axle snap without a PHB.

281pony · Aug 16, 2010

What do you mean careful about the springs and dampeners? I looked today I have 14 130 springs on my front coilovers. What do I need on the rear now?

Shaolin Crane · Aug 16, 2010

281pony said:
What do you mean careful about the springs and dampeners? I looked today I have 14 130 springs on my front coilovers. What do I need on the rear now?

More attention to the spring rates and what are on front to back, as well as matching the dampeners to the springs.

2000xp8 · Aug 16, 2010

347HO said:
If you're not going to road race or even autocross... the 3-link or torque arm appears to be a waste of money.

There are a ton of 10 second stock suspended 4-link cars out there and are driven on the street.

I agree, for your use i think you are wasting money.

Gonna cost you 500 bucks for the TA, then having it installed, and on top of that you are going to need new rear springs at least. But that may not be the end of it, 130 springs in the front are for drag racing, the car is never gong to handle well with them. Making the TA even less of a value.

Sounds like you are about to spend a grand on almost nothing.

Shaolin Crane · Aug 16, 2010

2000xp8 said:
I agree, for your use i think you are wasting money.

Gonna cost you 500 bucks for the TA, then having it installed, and on top of that you are going to need new rear springs at least. But that may not be the end of it, 130 springs in the front are for drag racing, the car is never gong to handle well with them. Making the TA even less of a value.

Sounds like you are about to spend a grand on almost nothing.

How is it almost nothing? He said he wants his car to handle. And wants something that will benefit him on the track. TA is the only thing for that, and just to show its not worthless, i have a STOCK 5.0 in my car, just LT's. I ran in the 1/8 an 8.7 At 80mph, with a 1.91 60'. 500lb coil overs in the front, 375lb in the rear, TA/PBH, and adjustable sway bar, if i had some sticky tires i would no doubt been able to launch harder and at a higher RPM.

2000xp8 · Aug 16, 2010

Shaolin Crane said:
How is it almost nothing? He said he wants his car to handle.

If he wants his car to handle, he should start with spending the money on the front springs, not a torque arm. How exactly is a TA a value with drag springs in the front of the car?

What good is making the back end handle if the front doesn't?

Shaolin Crane · Aug 16, 2010

2000xp8 said:
If he wants his car to handle, he should start with spending the money on the front springs, not a torque arm. How exactly is a TA a value with drag springs in the front of the car?

What good is making the back end handle if the front doesn't?

I agree, but either way hes going to need to change his springs, and the choice of what to go with is going to depend on what he goes with, no TA or TA, might as well spend the money once and not twice

281pony · Aug 16, 2010

So your saying I need much stiffer front springs? I spoke to the guy at mm today and now I'm getting contradicting info. He said my rear springs and shocks were good. Guess I will just go with what I purchase and adjust from there since everyone has such different advice.

281pony · Aug 16, 2010

BTW I'm just installing the panhard by itself for now. I'll see how that goes

347HO · Aug 16, 2010

281pony said:
BTW I'm just installing the panhard by itself for now. I'll see how that goes

Are you installing the panhard neutral at ride height?
How much do you expect your rear to squat?
I assume you're on street tires, not even street drag tires. It won't matter then.

281pony · Aug 16, 2010

i am on street tires yes. i will be getting some soon or for next year.

im having a friend who works at a suspension shop help me set it up. its not here until friday, so i dont have everything laid out 100%. is there something your getting at with those questions?

im just trying to absorb some info here

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