synthetic oil in sbf

[mikethebike]

Some people say not to use a synthetic with a flat tappet cam, because it's possible for the lifters to not spin properly if there isn't enough friction. It's interesting to see a couple posts of people with no problems.

Add one to the synthetic oil myth list. It goes someting like this:

1. Your rings won't seat properly if you use synthetic in a new engine...(that's why Porsche, M-B, GM, Farrerri and others use it from the factory).

2. If you have a roller cam it will ruin the roller bearings in the lifters due to them not turning because of the reduced friction. Same with a Harley-Davidson motorcycle engine that uses roller crank bearings. (the friction coeficient is the same as dino).

3. It will find it's way out of the same spot dino won't because it is 'slicker'...it won't if it's the same weight oil.

What it will do is clean all the deposits from the gaskets (assuming you were not using Castrol-GTX) and leak like a screen door due to the gaskets having shrunk.(especially if you were using an oil with moly-dendum additives)

IMHO unless you are running a late model car that generates the kind of heat these new cars do you should just run Castrol-GTX 20-50 and be done with it.

It won't make you engines water temp drop since this is controled by the thermostat and the cooling system and not by the oil. I've run it in an 87 Taurus, an 87 Sable, a 1982 M-B 240-D, a 1979 Fiesta (starting at 100,000 miles with no bad side effects), a 1995 Z/28, 2000 Civic, 2000 Accord, 2007 Accord, 1977 XLCH, and my 2004 BMW r-1150-RT. Absolutely NO difference in either water or oil temps and the bikes are air cooled with the XLCH being all cast iron above the cases.

I'm positive you will see posts here telling me I don't know what I'm talking about, but I've been doing this since the late 1950's and I will tell you the truth....even when it's something you may not want to hear.

Don't waste your money on synthetic in an older car.

And the guy who saw a 2mpg increase in milage....was it the same weight oil as dino or did you use a 5-30 energy conserving oil when you changed to synthetic and what was the viscosity of the dino? If you use a 5-20 E/C oil it should not matter if it's dino or synthetic. The thickness of the oil is what determines how much work it takes ot push it through the engine once it's warm.

 

[brianj5600]

And the guy who saw a 2mpg increase in milage....was it the same weight oil as dino or did you use a 5-30 energy conserving oil when you changed to synthetic and what was the viscosity of the dino? If you use a 5-20 E/C oil it should not matter if it's dino or synthetic. The thickness of the oil is what determines how much work it takes ot push it through the engine once it's warm.

Same weight oil. If you have never tried it, you only have an opinion. I have tried it and saw results.

 

[bnickel]

Add one to the synthetic oil myth list. It goes someting like this:

1. Your rings won't seat properly if you use synthetic in a new engine...(that's why Porsche, M-B, GM, Farrerri and others use it from the factory).

2. If you have a roller cam it will ruin the roller bearings in the lifters due to them not turning because of the reduced friction. Same with a Harley-Davidson motorcycle engine that uses roller crank bearings. (the friction coeficient is the same as dino).

3. It will find it's way out of the same spot dino won't because it is 'slicker'...it won't if it's the same weight oil.

What it will do is clean all the deposits from the gaskets (assuming you were not using Castrol-GTX) and leak like a screen door due to the gaskets having shrunk.(especially if you were using an oil with moly-dendum additives)

IMHO unless you are running a late model car that generates the kind of heat these new cars do you should just run Castrol-GTX 20-50 and be done with it.

It won't make you engines water temp drop since this is controled by the thermostat and the cooling system and not by the oil. I've run it in an 87 Taurus, an 87 Sable, a 1982 M-B 240-D, a 1979 Fiesta (starting at 100,000 miles with no bad side effects), a 1995 Z/28, 2000 Civic, 2000 Accord, 2007 Accord, 1977 XLCH, and my 2004 BMW r-1150-RT. Absolutely NO difference in either water or oil temps and the bikes are air cooled with the XLCH being all cast iron above the cases.

I'm positive you will see posts here telling me I don't know what I'm talking about, but I've been doing this since the late 1950's and I will tell you the truth....even when it's something you may not want to hear.

Don't waste your money on synthetic in an older car.

And the guy who saw a 2mpg increase in milage....was it the same weight oil as dino or did you use a 5-30 energy conserving oil when you changed to synthetic and what was the viscosity of the dino? If you use a 5-20 E/C oil it should not matter if it's dino or synthetic. The thickness of the oil is what determines how much work it takes ot push it through the engine once it's warm.

so synthetic oils have absolutely no benefit in mileage, increased power or longer oil change intervals? is that what you're saying? i know you are the all-mighty expert on everything and all but i don't buy any of that for a minute and i use GTX 20w-50 in my 69 stang, my 86 town car and 10w-30 GTX in my wifes 02 Escape. i've used synthetics in the stang before and have experienced gains in all those areas, i just can't run it right now because the engine isn't broken in enough yet, by the time it's due for it's next oil change it'll be ready though and i'll switch then. o don't bother in the town car because it has an oil leak already and i don't feel like fixing the leak on it. haven't used it in the escape yet but i will.

the vettes and such that come with it from the factory are run in before they are installed in the car and they all have new blocks with better machining tolerances and can run synthetics a lot sooner than a rebuilt engine in an old car.

 

[fastdave]

I picked up 3 mpg using Amsoil 10w-30 in both of my cars. A 2004 Accord (Put it in when new) and a 97 Nissan pickup ( Nissan had 76,000 miles on it & still doesn't have any oil leaks). I drove the same route several times at the same speed,weather ect to get a good baseline mpg using Castrol 10w-30. Then I did the same with Royal Purple and Amsoil. Only the with the Amsoil did my gas mileage improve. I put it in my 65 Mustang after the rebuild. I only ran Castrol for the cam break in period. Switched to Amsoil and yes the rings did seat. I don't check the mileage on it cause it is difficult to keep my foot out of it. I prefer Amsoil because it improves my MPG, Extended drain intervals mean less time doing oil changes,less enviromental waste and IMHO better protection for thes HOT Phoenix summers.

 

[DK832]

One of the mags i subscribe to, seem to recall it was Mustang & Fords, had a dyno session with this topic early this year. Dynoed with 20/50 mineral and then 10/40 synthetic and picked up almost 20HP as I recall. Kinda proves the point I'd say.
Let med see if I can find a link to the article.

 

[mikethebike]

One of the mags i subscribe to, seem to recall it was Mustang & Fords, had a dyno session with this topic early this year. Dynoed with 20/50 mineral and then 10/40 synthetic and picked up almost 20HP as I recall. Kinda proves the point I'd say.
Let med see if I can find a link to the article.

Did you read my post when I asked if he used the same viscocity? YOU proved my point. And as far as just HOW you calculated your mpg.....bet you did it on 1 tank. When I calculate mpg I top-off the tank and add the exact same amount of gas each time I fill up...I.E., in the BMW I put exactly 5 gallons each time, and then when I top off the last tank at around 1000 miles I always go to the same station, same pump and stop at the 1st auto shut-off. That way if the last top-off is off by any amount it will have very little affect on the numbers. In the 350 cid LT-1 engines GM only got something like .25-.40 mpg increase under controlled lab conditions. Nothing personal but I trust their engineers more than I trust you and I expect you feel (correctly so, I might add) the same about me.

And, Hack...I NEVER said dino was BETTER...only if you have an older car without all the EPA and high temp thermostats you don't need it. I use it in all my new cars and any air cooled engine, just not in my 65. I have always changed my oil the 1st week of April and then in October to get the summer oil out and the winter oil out at the end of the seasons. My fiesta is still around with 300,000+ miles and the others all went 250k+.

 

[reenmachine]

Did you read my post when I asked if he used the same viscocity? YOU proved my point. And as far as just HOW you calculated your mpg.....bet you did it on 1 tank.

I tried to quit responding to your "statements of fact" but I got drawn in again...

Same viscosity. Tested under nearly-identical conditions over the exact same route at the same average speed at 2500+ miles for each. On my way from my rocket scientist job at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory in CA to my assignment to launch two Delta IIs to Mars from Kennedy Space Center, FL and back. Don't try and talk scientific method with me, son (yes, I know you're old enough to be my dad).

That's not to mention the aforementioned list of other vehicles with which I have had similar results.

 

[bnickel]

I tried to quit responding to your "statements of fact" but I got drawn in again...

Same viscosity. Tested under nearly-identical conditions over the exact same route at the same average speed at 2500+ miles for each. On my way from my rocket scientist job at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory in CA to my assignment to launch two Delta IIs to Mars from Kennedy Space Center, FL and back. Don't try and talk scientific method with me, son (yes, I know you're old enough to be my dad).

That's not to mention the aforementioned list of other vehicles with which I have had similar results.

hey Pete, show him some of those pics of the Mars Lander, those were pretty neat.

 

[Hack]

I tried to quit responding to your "statements of fact" but I got drawn in again...

Same viscosity. Tested under nearly-identical conditions over the exact same route at the same average speed at 2500+ miles for each. On my way from my rocket scientist job at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory in CA to my assignment to launch two Delta IIs to Mars from Kennedy Space Center, FL and back. Don't try and talk scientific method with me, son (yes, I know you're old enough to be my dad).

That's not to mention the aforementioned list of other vehicles with which I have had similar results.

Haha.. I've started to realize that when Mike's arguing with me I must be correct. I think you know the feeling.

 

[mikethebike]

I tried to quit responding to your "statements of fact" but I got drawn in again...

Same viscosity. Tested under nearly-identical conditions over the exact same route at the same average speed at 2500+ miles for each. On my way from my rocket scientist job at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory in CA to my assignment to launch two Delta IIs to Mars from Kennedy Space Center, FL and back. Don't try and talk scientific method with me, son (yes, I know you're old enough to be my dad).

That's not to mention the aforementioned list of other vehicles with which I have had similar results.

Don't talk methods with YOU! That's funny, if you got those numbers in a repeatable scientific test under controlled conditions every auto manufacturer on the planet would be offering you much more than your imaginary job at JPL.

 

[brianj5600]

I bet if they had synthetic oil back in the day, the Boss 302's would not had such a scuffing problem with piston skirts.

 

[bnickel]

Don't talk methods with YOU! That's funny, if you got those numbers in a repeatable scientific test under controlled conditions every auto manufacturer on the planet would be offering you much more than your imaginary job at JPL.

his past job at JPL is less imaginary than all the cars you say you have owned, the boss 302 included. i still think your some 13 year old punk kid who has nothing better to do than to argue with a bunch of guys trying to have fun and help each other out.

 

[reenmachine]

Don't talk methods with YOU! That's funny, if you got those numbers in a repeatable scientific test under controlled conditions every auto manufacturer on the planet would be offering you much more than your imaginary job at JPL.

Imaginary?

It looks like you researched that statement about as effectively as you research your others.

 

[dablack]

Ok, Ok, my turn. I work at NASA (JSC)! ha ha ha. oh wait. I really do. I just finished writing some of the certification documents for the E-NOSE (a JPL product). My group built everything but the actual sensor. Now that I'm done with that I'm working on some EVA hand tools. Who wants to know about tile repair!

Ok, whos next.

 

[brianj5600]

I need to do some in my bathroom. How do you make sure the grout matches?

 

[reenmachine]

I need to do some in my bathroom. How do you make sure the grout matches?

It would match absolutely perfectly, but it'll cost you $1.8 mill!

 

[dablack]

At least that much. Plus you DO NOT want to breathe that stuff. The primer isn't so bad, but the two part filler is nasty! In fact when we were doing prototype testing a couple of years ago, we found a company to fix the stuff up but couldn't find anyone to ship it in the time frame we needed, so two engineer (young ones) rented a truck, drove across texas and two more states to get the goo and drive it back. We needed the stuff on Monday and they did it. The best part is, when the stuff cures it comes out pink!

 

[1970 slantroof]

A friend in California just sent a virgin (unused) sample of Rotella T Synthetic to Blackstone Labs for analysis and they showed 1144 ppm of Phosphorus and 1281 ppm of zinc. Looks like they still have the good stuff for flat tappets.
Howard

 

[chromedog]

i have a tech bulletin from amsoil that says their 10w40 is fine for flat tappet cams...