Synthetic to Gasoline?

kpack5982 · Jul 15, 2008

On the way to work today I was thinking about how many miles until my next oil

change, and I use synthetic. Although I'm not familiar with the actual process, of

making a synthetic oil, I figure: gas comes from oil, why not produce a synthetic

gasoline. So I do some searches and found this link:

Synthetic fuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

apparently you can use coal to make synthetic fuel? and there is enough to meet

current demand to last for centuries?

And why are gas companies not doing more of this?

Just makes me wonder what else science is capable of in helping our oil situation.

Any thoughts?

NIKwoaC · Jul 15, 2008

Well, my first thought is that it would be reeeally reeally expensive. Notice how much more expensive syn oil is compared to traditional oils. Now take current gas prices and multiply by that same factor.

Example:

Valvoline Premium Conventional 10W-30 = 3.38$/qt
Valvoline SynPower 10W-30 = 6.18$/qt

At that ratio, and 4$/gal gasoline, synthetic gasoline would cost about 7.31$/gal!

Edit: I got those prices from Advance Auto Parts online.

1991vert · Jul 15, 2008

NikwoaC said:
Well, my first thought is that it would be reeeally reeally expensive. Notice how much more expensive syn oil is compared to traditional oils. Now take current gas prices and multiply by that same factor.

Example:

Valvoline Premium Conventional 10W-30 = 3.38$/qt
Valvoline SynPower 10W-30 = 6.18$/qt

At that ratio, and 4$/gal gasoline, synthetic gasoline would cost about 7.31$/gal!

Edit: I got those prices from Advance Auto Parts online.

are you an oil speculator

NIKwoaC · Jul 15, 2008

1991vert said:
are you an oil speculator

I am. And I speculate that oil should be free. For me. Only.

kpack5982 · Jul 15, 2008

yeah, i thought about the price being more for the synthetic, but then again, gas

is said to eventually get that high anyways, so they would eventually be

comparable. Plus it says that it requires less steps, the "reforming and cracking".

Sure it produces more greenhouse gases, but how many of us have offroad h or x

pipes anyways?

stykthyn · Jul 15, 2008

ethanol is a synthetic gas, and if you really wanted to get spiffy so would a hydrogen generator, but how cost effective is it going to be????
I would just as soon see a straight up electric car that doesnt burn any gas.

GTOreturns · Jul 15, 2008

stykthyn said:
ethanol is a synthetic gas, and if you really wanted to get spiffy so would a hydrogen generator, but how cost effective is it going to be????
I would just as soon see a straight up electric car that doesnt burn any gas.

ethanol is already in gas. About 10% I think.

85_SS_302_Coupe · Jul 15, 2008

The simple answer is that the oil companies wouldn't make billions in profits, therefor it won't ever happen.

Darkwriter77 · Jul 15, 2008

85_SS_302_Coupe said:
The simple answer is that the oil companies wouldn't make billions in profits, therefor it won't ever happen.

Meh ... I wouldn't say that it'd NEVER happen. Who knows, as technology advances, some things wind up becoming cheaper than others. If companies could figure a way to make gasoline out of coal for the same or lower cost than oil-to-gasoline - and, of course, charge more for it because people might wind up being willing to pay for it - then I could see it happening. But I agree, it's pretty darned unlikely.

+1 for all-electric cars. I wantses me a Tesla Roadster.

85_SS_302_Coupe · Jul 15, 2008

Well suffice to say that if they can't make it cheaper and make more profit off of it vs. doing it how they're doing it now, it won't happen.

stykthyn · Jul 16, 2008

GTOreturns said:
ethanol is already in gas. About 10% I think.

I was thinking more of burning a 100% ethanol fuel in the car.

desertcox05 · Jul 16, 2008

ethanol isn't synthetic. it's corn based therfore it's organic. synthetic = all chemical FWIW

NIKwoaC · Jul 16, 2008

The problem with electric cars is that you are still using petroleum fuels to produce the electricity in a power plant. Its like a chicken-before-the-egg thing. And while environmentally friendly power plants are being put into use, the majority of electrical power is still produced by burning fossil fuels. I would love using an electric car, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to go widespread until more of our energy comes from hydro, solar, wind, nuclear, etc.

stykthyn · Jul 16, 2008

NikwoaC said:
The problem with electric cars is that you are still using petroleum fuels to produce the electricity in a power plant. Its like a chicken-before-the-egg thing. And while environmentally friendly power plants are being put into use, the majority of electrical power is still produced by burning fossil fuels. I would love using an electric car, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to go widespread until more of our energy comes from hydro, solar, wind, nuclear, etc.

you make an excellent point, but would the cost of the fossil fuels outweigh the cost of the production/sale of gasoline?? there is always going to be a catch 22. on top of that more and more state goverments are trying to become greener and are taking steps to reduce and eventually eliminate coal burning power plants.

this kind of reminds me of the solar car race that I saw in national geographic about 20 years ago. they had some cars that would do about 60mph. they used no gas and did not rely on any other outside power source.

NIKwoaC · Jul 16, 2008

Yea, solar power is a freaking sweet concept, but even the most expensive solar panels avaliable today are less that 30% efficient in conversion to electrical power. But its getting better. And when you consider that the most efficient gasoline motors are only about that efficient at converting thermal energy to mechanical energy, I don't think we are far from making some solid advancements in the power production field.

stykthyn · Jul 16, 2008

I do believe the internal combustion engine is about 17% efficient.

another awesome condcept I saw was a car that ran off an air compressor. it would run for about 45 min before it needed to be recharged and it would reach speeds over 45mph. that would be a perfect commuter. I could go to work and back every day without having to refill.

NIKwoaC · Jul 16, 2008

stykthyn said:
I do believe the internal combustion engine is about 17% efficient.

another awesome condcept I saw was a car that ran off an air compressor. it would run for about 45 min before it needed to be recharged and it would reach speeds over 45mph. that would be a perfect commuter. I could go to work and back every day without having to refill.

I've seen piston driven steam engines demonstrated with compressed air. Same concept?

stykthyn · Jul 16, 2008

Darkwriter77 · Jul 16, 2008

I saw an article about a company that's producing and selling those compressed air-powered cars in India. Cool idea, really ... but again with the chicken-and-egg thing, what about the energy needed to compress that air in the first place?

Just had a funny thought. If people were running around town with these a lot, what happens when you run out of air before you get to a refill station? I bet you'd see a lot of people on the side of the road now and then, pumping away furiously on a bicycle air pump to get their car back up and running...

jrichker · Jul 16, 2008

The Nazi's did indeed come up with a process to convert coal to high quality gasoline. The cost of production needed to go above $39 a barrel for the oil companies to make a profit doing it. It is way past that at $140+ a barrel.

The Governor of Montana has said that the coal to gasoline thing is a great idea: he's waiting for someone to step up to the plate and do it. He also said that there is enough coal in the Montana area to make gasoline for the next 200+ years. The South Africans were on the network news a few nights ago and showed that it could be done, and they are successfully doing it.

If it is a great idea and is workable, why don’t we have it? The problem is twofold:
1.) You have to get the coal out of the ground in huge quantities, which means strip mining.
2.) You have to build a huge refinery to process the coal.

The obstacle to both items is the environmentalists. Strip mining is a nasty, ugly process that costs big $$$ to reclaim the land when it is done. Plus nobody wants a refinery in their community. They stink, are ugly, and they pollute the air. There hasn’t been a oil refinery built in the US in over 20 years. The environmentalists and the cost of building the refinery will hold this cheap process back until someone with some sense and political power makes it turn around. Meanwhile we all suffer every time we fill up or cars & trucks.

Maybe one of the key issues for the up and coming Presidential campaign should be a rational plan for a coal to gasoline energy policy. It might temp some of us to vote for a candidate we otherwise wouldn’t give the time of day.

Synthetic to Gasoline?

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