T-5 teardown -- can't get 5th gear off!!!

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Hello Stangnet:

I apologize in advance if this is terrible etiquette, but I already posted this question to the 94-95 board and now I'm copying and pasting it here. It was like this:

This is my first post to this board. I am putting a T5 out of a '95 GT into a '65 fastback. But first I am installing a Counter Gear Stabilizer kit from Medatronics (www.5speeds.com). This requires removal of the fifth gear from the back of the case.

I have removed everything down to the synchronizer hub, but it just doesn't want to come off. That is, I've got the synchronizer sleeve off, and those three little things that look like little toy cars are out, and the brass ring from the middle too. But the synchronizer hub seems to be hung up on something. It slides back and forth on its splines, but won't slide off.

What is the trick?

Part two, I did not mark my synchronizer sleeve and hub prior to separating them. Now I read in the T5 service manual and in the Chris Neighbors T5 rebuild page that I should have done this. Well, I didn't, so now what?

TIA, and please have pity on an ignorant newbie.

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ttt

 

[Mustang5L5]

There is a snap ring holding the hub on the countergear shaft. Did you remove that? After that is gone, the entire synchro can be removed as an assembly.

You can see the snap ring in this shot on the hub. There is 1 snap ring for the synchro hub and another snap ring holding the 5th driven gear (the small gear). Usually i remove the snap ring and drive the roll pin out of the 5th gear shift fork and take the entire 5th gear synchro/fork out as 1 unit.

Did you download the T-5 service manual from Tremec. If not i highly recommend you do. It gives you step by step procedures on disassembly. I wouldn't worry about the synchro hubs not being marked. Just make sure you reassemble them correctly.

Here is the manual.

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/media/pdfs_autogen/T-5_Service_Manual.pdf

 

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Thank you, Mike, for the great photo. A pic really is worth a thousand words. Unfortunately the cluster gear shaft on the tranny in your pic is slightly different than the one I'm looking at on my workbench. I believe difference is the same as described by Chris Neighbors at page 16 of his August 2002 T5 rebuild artcle, pomoforacing.com/tech/T5Rebuild2002.pdf . I wish I could copy and paste that page but because it's in pdf, I can't. As Chris explains the difference, "Borg-Warner made an attempt in mid-'92 to relieve the grinding [when shifting into reverse] by piggy-backing a synchronizer and blocker assembly on the fifth gear synchro. The attempt was to slow the cluster gear a bit. . . ."

Anyway, yes I drove the pin out of the shifter fork, and I also removed the external C-clip from the end of the cluster shaft. This allowed me to remove, in order, (1) an internally splined washer which locks into the cluster shaft splines and which retains (2) a black conical washer which fits inside of (3) a brass "blocker" ring, which fits inside of (4) the synchronizer sleeve. Also removed are the three "inserts" (the little metal rectangles that look like tiny cars) and one of the two synchronizer springs. (You can see most of these parts in p. 16 of Chris Neighbor's PDF. You can also see some of these parts, as used in the pre-'92 T-5's, at Figure 3-14 of the Tremec Service Manual ( http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/T-5.asp )) Also, the shifter fork necessarily came off with the synchronizer sleeve. But the inner ring, the synchronizer hub, will not come off.

So that's my question. Why won't that synchronizer hub come off? What's the trick?

 

[Mustang5L5]

Hmm, ok so you have one of the synchronized Reverse T-5's. Unfortunately i have not had a chance to rebuild one of them yet so what i said before may not be accurate.

Without any pictures, diagrams or expeirence with one, i am afraid i cannot be of much help to you. Sorry.

 

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ttt

 

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I just got off the phone with the 5speeds.com guy and he says on the later T-5's you've got to pry the 5th gear off or use a puller to get the synchronizer hub off. I would not have tried this without an expert's advice telling me to do it, but now I've got a plan.

Also, he said not to worry about the synchronizer hub and the ring not matching up as assembled from the factory. Next time I will definitely mark them before disassembly, but it doesn't seem to be a biggie.

Anyway, thanks for the help Stangnet!

 

[Mustang5L5]

Also, he said not to worry about the synchronizer hub and the ring not matching up as assembled from the factory. Next time I will definitely mark them before disassembly, but it doesn't seem to be a biggie.

Yeha i wouldn't worry. I have forgotten to do that myself a few times and just put them back together any way. There really is only 3 ways to line them up with the grooves. I haven't had a problem