TB Injection Install (Aces Killshot)

Blackhawkxx · Mar 17, 2024

LILCBRA said:
With any luck, I may be firing it up this week!

Be sure to video the initial fire up so we can all watch the joy of winning or the agony of defeat.

LILCBRA · Mar 18, 2024

Finished the fuel lines and hooked up almost all of the wiring today. Just a few more wires and double check everything again and it should be ready to fire!

LILCBRA · Mar 21, 2024

Ok, so I got all of the wiring connected up. I'll have to get back to it again to straighten and clean it all up, but it's wired. I grabbed my battery but it wasn't fully charged. So I put a charger on it for a while, then tried jumping it with my Camry but the starter still wouldn't kick over. The fuel pump and injectors are firing though - the injectors filled the venturis a bunch of times so I KNOW it's definitely flooded now! But the starter isn't kicking over at all. You can hear the solenoid give it power, so I'm sure it's not a wiring issue - which wouldn't make a lot of sense anyway since none of that was touched. SOOOOO..... I guess I'll have to tear the bottom end apart again and pull the starter, maybe even replace it if it's bad. Definitely not how I wanted the day to end....

Blackhawkxx · Mar 21, 2024

Maybe have your battery load tested at most auto parts store for free to be sure you are working with a good one. A funky battery can induce all kinds of issues.

LILCBRA · Mar 22, 2024

Sat and thought about it last night and that's part of the plan. It's been on the charger overnight since it hasn't done anything for maybe 6 months. It's been out of the car the whole time so it's not been subjected to parasitic losses, but I do question whether or not it's any good even though it's only 2 years old. But of course it's supposed to rain again today, so it'll most likely be waiting.

LILCBRA · Mar 30, 2024

HUGE update - IT RUNS!! Sorry, no video - it fought me the whole way, but I got it started and running. The idle is a little higher than where I programmed it to be, and no matter what, it floods when attempting to start it. I'll have to tinker with the settings to see if I can adjust the initial pulse, but it runs. One problem I'm having, which I was curious about beforehand AND was eluded to on the second page by @Bullitt347 is that when I mash the throttle it stumbles pretty hard. I think that the cut plenum divider isn't quite enough as it is now, so I think it either needs a spacer or a single plane intake swap. I don't think the Offy intake I have will work, so that would mean a new manifold. OR I could try a spacer and hope that that works, but if it does I'll definitely need a new hood scoop as the current setup won't allow anything taller than I already have. Initial thoughts are a Boss-9 scoop but I really don't like the looks of them on a II. I've also thought about running the current manifold to a shop and having them mill the divider down farther than I already have in hopes that that'll work but there's no guarantees on that. So, I guess I'm at another standstill until I figure out which path I want to take.

Choice #1: Carb spacer and Boss 429 scoop.
Cons: I think the scoop is too tall for the looks of the car and it's probably the most expensive option just making a quick Google search for new scoops.

Choice #2: Buy and try a single plane intake.
Cons: It's still gonna cost me a couple hundred dollars MINIMUM.

Choice #3: Take the existing manifold to a shop and have them mill the divider more than I already have.
Cons: don't really know what it'll cost but I can't imagine it being as expensive as the other 2 options.

What I'm going to do right now is run to Summit Racing in McDonough and pick up a couple 1/2" spacers. I figure that'll give me an idea of what works and what doesn't so I can HOPEFULLY make an informed decision.

Bullitt347 · Mar 30, 2024

That Offy intake manifold is not very good compared to most other intakes.
Throw on TBI and it just gets worse.
The way air/fuel flow through a carb is completely different than TBI.
Obviously your cheapest choice is to have the current intake center divider milled. Will that solve the issue?
You will not know that until you try.
Or, just take the money required for that process and apply it to a single plane intake.
Might be able to score a used one for cheap, at least compared to new.

LILCBRA · Mar 30, 2024

Figured I'd try the spacer first and see how it reacts before I get too in depth. I bought (2) 1/2" spacers and put one in. It didn't seem to help when you smash the pedal, but I only got to give it one try before I had to stop, the alternator belt broke.

One thing I thought of on my drive down there was if a spacer works and if the throttle body is raised 1/2" or 1", what about a drop base air cleaner? That would allow the air cleaner to sit under my existing scoop. So I bought one of those while I was there too. After the belt broke I decided to give it a test fit to see if it would work - it won't. I'm using a 14" air cleaner, a 16" might work, although I don't know if it'll clear the distributor.

2Blue2 · Mar 30, 2024

LILCBRA said:
What I'm going to do right now is run to Summit Racing in McDonough and pick up a couple

Intake manifolds!
I mean while your there, and all...

LILCBRA said:
Choice #1: Carb spacer and Boss 429 scoop.

I lean towards door #1

Mcmahst · Mar 30, 2024

The machine shop is the cheapest path, but you could just get a nice grinding tool and do it yourself. It’s not that difficult, just use dykem blue and scribe a nice line to grind to. Use a power washer to make sure it's completely clean. I did that like 25 years ago, and better grinders are available now. I like WD-40 to keep the grinder tool clean. Good luck.

Blackhawkxx · Mar 30, 2024

LILCBRA said:
Figured I'd try the spacer first and see how it reacts before I get too in depth. I bought (2) 1/2" spacers and put one in.

Always try the cheap easy things first even if you have to leave the air cleaner off for the test. While I have no experience with aftermarket F.I., I'm thinking that if 1" worth of spacer doesn't fix it, the deeper cut in the intake won't either. I would try contacting the tech line of the F.I. manufacturer, it may be a tuning issue. Maybe try all avenues before spending the money on a single plane that will cause hood issues and will lose your bottom end torque for your set up.
Just my 2 cents.

Edit to add: Congrats on the start up. I know it's been a long time coming.

LILCBRA · Mar 31, 2024

That's the exact thing I was thinking. Great minds think alike!

I had a couple ideas about it all yesterday. First is that the plenum divider isn't allowing a proper signal for the MAP sensor to acknowledge the pressure change fast enough to fire the injectors. So I started thinking of opening the plenum in one way or another, that would eliminate that as a cause. If opening the plenum doesn't work then it's gotta be some tuning issue somewhere. Now that I've slept on it, I lean more toward it being a tuning issue instead. It acts exactly like when a carburetor's accelerator pump isn't timed correctly. So the most logical explanation is that the injectors aren't firing when the throttle is smashed. It all works if it's gradual, but if you just stomp on it there's a lack of fuel. I'm picking up a new belt today. I'll see about taking a short video for everyone.

As far as the air cleaner goes - I looked at the base of my old one. It looks like I can remove about 1/2" of material from around the mounting flange to make it work with one spacer. So if I leave the spacer I've put in already I can do that to take care of the issue.

(Edit: Mis-spoke about the belt. I thought I ordered it next day delivery through Amazon last night and found out I didn't. O'Reilly's has one in stock so I'll be picking one up.)

Mcmahst · Mar 31, 2024

For what it’s worth, a vacuum leak can cause the same stumble off idle in an EFI system. I chased my leak for far too long, but it was sweet when I found and fixed it.

Noobz347 · Mar 31, 2024

LILCBRA said:
Choice #2: Buy and try a single plane intake.
Cons: It's still gonna cost me a couple hundred dollars MINIMUM.

I dunno nothing about it but I saw this in a video once... I think I recall who it was and will try to find the video.

He went single plane and all was well

LILCBRA · Mar 31, 2024

Here are a couple videos I just took.

I don't think there are any vacuum leaks anywhere, at least none that I've found. I did, however, hook up the vacuum port to the regulator and adjusted pressure again before these videos were taken. It's up to operating temp (~190ish) here. I've dialed the initial injector pulse at start up down as low as it can go and it started without doing a flood clear procedure, unlike yesterday.

Anyway, these videos are with the 1/2" spacer still installed.

Noobz347 · Mar 31, 2024

Meh... What I saw may or may not be applicable:

Not exactly apples to apples

Noobz347 · Mar 31, 2024

LILCBRA said:
Here are a couple videos I just took.

I don't think there are any vacuum leaks anywhere, at least none that I've found. I did, however, hook up the vacuum port to the regulator and adjusted pressure again before these videos were taken. It's up to operating temp (~190ish) here. I've dialed the initial injector pulse at start up down as low as it can go and it started without doing a flood clear procedure, unlike yesterday.

Anyway, these videos are with the 1/2" spacer still installed.

That acts like it is barely getting enough to fuel to run and/or injectors are shutting off at WOT.

LILCBRA · Mar 31, 2024

I know the A/F ratio at idle is good, runs around 13ish, but when you smash the pedal, as you can see in the videos, it acts like it doesn't give any fuel. So I don't think it's a manifold issue, it really seems to be a fuel delivery/supply issue. I'm not all that well versed in EFI tuning and the handheld can seemingly only supply enough info to get you into trouble, but it seems to me that it could be some sort of sensor malfunction -maybe the TPS? I'll try to give them a call tomorrow to speak to a tech and see what steps they would like to take. It has datalogging capabilities, so it could be as easy as emailing back and forth, or it could be something that I missed somewhere when I got it running. I guess time will tell.

Noobz347 · Mar 31, 2024

We are thinking along the same line.

Something that is supposed to happen is [not] happening or it is happening out of order...

ex... EEC thinks some threshold has not been reached for engine to be "running" and shuts injectors down --or-- fuel pressure/volume issue

LILCBRA · Apr 1, 2024

LILCBRA said:
Ok, so I got all of the wiring connected up. I'll have to get back to it again to straighten and clean it all up, but it's wired. I grabbed my battery but it wasn't fully charged. So I put a charger on it for a while, then tried jumping it with my Camry but the starter still wouldn't kick over. The fuel pump and injectors are firing though - the injectors filled the venturis a bunch of times so I KNOW it's definitely flooded now! But the starter isn't kicking over at all. You can hear the solenoid give it power, so I'm sure it's not a wiring issue - which wouldn't make a lot of sense anyway since none of that was touched. SOOOOO..... I guess I'll have to tear the bottom end apart again and pull the starter, maybe even replace it if it's bad. Definitely not how I wanted the day to end....

Side note about this problem: FIrst thing I should add is that I'm using a starter from a later model 5.0, like a 95 GT, so it's not an original style circuit. I pulled the starter, bench tested it and it worked. So I grabbed my meter and started testing resistance between connections. It turned out to be the trigger wire from the solenoid to the starter. I didn't take it out of the loom that I had it in to see what the problem really was, I just replaced it with a heavier gauge wire. Problem solved!

TB Injection Install (Aces Killshot)

Blackhawkxx

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LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air

LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air

Blackhawkxx

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LILCBRA

I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air

LILCBRA

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Bullitt347

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

LILCBRA

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2Blue2

will be trying this sex one when I can find it

Mcmahst

Blackhawkxx

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LILCBRA

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Mcmahst

Noobz347

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Noobz347

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Noobz347

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LILCBRA

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I wish I didn't have all of these balls in the air

will be trying this sex one when I can find it

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Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

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