Total Control Products has been taken over by Chris Alston Chassis Works, Its Now TCP: A Alston Chassis Works company. They did not take over any of TCP's debt or unshipppast order just the right to the products and name. The will begin taking orders approx the 20th of this month with a lead time of 40-50 days till delivery due to no current inventory in stock. The also state that for now prices will remain the same but in the not to distant future prices will go up due to the rising cost of steel, when and how much is currently unknown. IMO there couldnt be a better company to take over, Chassiworks is a top notch business that builds very high quality stuff. If you go to the TCP site this info is there.
TCP lives!!
- Thread starter TT670
- Start date
skywalker
Member
The prices were insane before. IMO they should leave the as they are now and take a small profit hit.
This is the e-mail i got today........................
Yesterday's Classics, Today's Technology...
-------------------------------------------
Effective: June 10, 2004
-------------------------------------
New Source for Total Control Products
-------------------------------------
Chris Alston's Chassisworks, Inc. (Chassisworks) has purchased the exclusive rights to manufacture and distribute the entire Total Control Products family of components.
http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com
--------------------
Who is Chassisworks?
--------------------
Chassisworks' is one of the industry leaders in aftermarket suspension manufacturing and distribution. Beginning in 1987, Chris Alston, set out to build a line of easy-to-install, easy-to-use products for aftermarket automotive enthusiasts. 17 years later, Chris Alston's Chassisworks has built a solid reputation for building high-quality, cutting edge, user friendly products. Chassisworks has the most advanced, state of the art facility to manufacture aftermarket suspension. This will assure the continued quality that you have come to expect in the TCP brand. Additionally, Chassisworks is known for its ability to ship 98% of its orders the next day. After initial stocking, TCP products will be available immediately.
If you would like to find out more about Chassisworks, a Shop Tour is available on their website.
http://www.cachassisworks.com
------------------------
How do I place an order?
------------------------
Currently orders can be placed via the web or snail mail. As soon as Chassisworks has input all the necessary information into our order-entry system you will be able to place your orders by phone. We expect to be able to take phone orders starting June 21st.
Secure Online Ordering is available from any of our products pages.
http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/products.html
Mail-In Orders must be submitted to:
Chris Alston's Chassisworks, Inc.
8661 Younger Creek Drive
Sacramento CA 95828
-----------
New Pricing
-----------
There currently is a global shortage of steel and other raw materials. Some materials have increased almost 50%. Due to this market condition the pricing of many items will have to be increased. The good news is Chassisworks will, for a short time, honor the existing TCP website pricing. This is a temporary smokin' deal! Don't miss out. You snooze, you lose. As soon as we can re-cost all of the parts the prices will increase. Pricing will be effective on the date we receive your order, not the price in effect on the shipping date.
-----------------
Shipping Timeline
-----------------
Some products will be available to ship in 45-60 days. Others may take 120 days or longer. The delivery is mostly affected by subcontractor components. Chassisworks can manufacture, in-house, more parts than TCP could. This will shorten the lead time. We will update delivery times as more information becomes available.
----------------------------------
I have an existing order at TCP...
----------------------------------
Chassisworks did not buy TCP. We only purchased the exclusive manufacturing rights and everything necessary to produce the products. Therefore it will be necessary for you to reorder from Chassisworks. See "How do I place an order?"
-----------------------------------
Spare or missing parts availability
-----------------------------------
Request for individual component parts can only be made by email. The TCP product has undergone many part number changes and a great deal of research is required to determine the correct item number. When requesting component information, please provide as much information as possible about the item you are looking for. Digital photos, old parts numbers, approximate time of initial order, make and model of vehicle, or any other information will be helpful. We will fill these as soon as the components become available.
-------------
Tech Support?
-------------
For the foreseeable future tech support will only be available online via email or the tech support forum. It will take some time to train the Chassisworks' sales and tech support staff. Our techs will need time to research your questions so please send as much information as possible. We will expand our tech forum with any relevant new information.
Email: [email protected]
Tech Support Forum: http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/support.html
--------------------------------------
I was a TCP Distributor, what do I do?
--------------------------------------
If you are an existing TCP Distributor you can become a Chassisworks dealer for TCP products and our other brands. Subject to verification or your prior dealer status. Contact Chassisworks' Sales Manager, Jim Wright at (916) 388-0288.
-----------------------------------
I was a TCP Supplier, what do I do?
-----------------------------------
If you were a supplier of components to TCP, please email us a list of items you provided. Include the part number, description, price and quantities. Chassisworks is interested in establishing relationships with all prior suppliers.
Email: [email protected]
---------------------
TCP Product Imitators
---------------------
Whenever a popular product becomes unavailable, even for a short period of time, opportunists will try to fill the void with imitations. Do not be fooled by their claims. Only Chassisworks owns the patents and has the complete engineering and design specifications along with the required fixtures, tooling and test stands to correctly manufacture the products. The TCP product line is comprised of approximately 1,000 individual components. No copy company is clever enough to get everything right. They always claim their new part is better. How can that be when they don't have the experience that comes from being the first to market with years of refining into a mature product? Just because someone can make something that looks similar to a TCP product, doesn't mean they have a comparable product with detailed instructions and expert tech support. Chassisworks acquired all product knowledge with the TCP product line. We will use this information to continually refine existing pr
oducts and develop new ones.
-------------------
Updated Information
-------------------
Any future announcements or updates will be posted on the Total Control Products website. Check back often as more information will be released soon.
http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com
For the latest product information visit us at...
www.totalcontrolproducts.com
-------------------------------------------
If you wish to be removed from this mailing list,
please send your request to...
[email protected]
SUBJECT: REMOVE
Yesterday's Classics, Today's Technology...
-------------------------------------------
Effective: June 10, 2004
-------------------------------------
New Source for Total Control Products
-------------------------------------
Chris Alston's Chassisworks, Inc. (Chassisworks) has purchased the exclusive rights to manufacture and distribute the entire Total Control Products family of components.
http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com
--------------------
Who is Chassisworks?
--------------------
Chassisworks' is one of the industry leaders in aftermarket suspension manufacturing and distribution. Beginning in 1987, Chris Alston, set out to build a line of easy-to-install, easy-to-use products for aftermarket automotive enthusiasts. 17 years later, Chris Alston's Chassisworks has built a solid reputation for building high-quality, cutting edge, user friendly products. Chassisworks has the most advanced, state of the art facility to manufacture aftermarket suspension. This will assure the continued quality that you have come to expect in the TCP brand. Additionally, Chassisworks is known for its ability to ship 98% of its orders the next day. After initial stocking, TCP products will be available immediately.
If you would like to find out more about Chassisworks, a Shop Tour is available on their website.
http://www.cachassisworks.com
------------------------
How do I place an order?
------------------------
Currently orders can be placed via the web or snail mail. As soon as Chassisworks has input all the necessary information into our order-entry system you will be able to place your orders by phone. We expect to be able to take phone orders starting June 21st.
Secure Online Ordering is available from any of our products pages.
http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/products.html
Mail-In Orders must be submitted to:
Chris Alston's Chassisworks, Inc.
8661 Younger Creek Drive
Sacramento CA 95828
-----------
New Pricing
-----------
There currently is a global shortage of steel and other raw materials. Some materials have increased almost 50%. Due to this market condition the pricing of many items will have to be increased. The good news is Chassisworks will, for a short time, honor the existing TCP website pricing. This is a temporary smokin' deal! Don't miss out. You snooze, you lose. As soon as we can re-cost all of the parts the prices will increase. Pricing will be effective on the date we receive your order, not the price in effect on the shipping date.
-----------------
Shipping Timeline
-----------------
Some products will be available to ship in 45-60 days. Others may take 120 days or longer. The delivery is mostly affected by subcontractor components. Chassisworks can manufacture, in-house, more parts than TCP could. This will shorten the lead time. We will update delivery times as more information becomes available.
----------------------------------
I have an existing order at TCP...
----------------------------------
Chassisworks did not buy TCP. We only purchased the exclusive manufacturing rights and everything necessary to produce the products. Therefore it will be necessary for you to reorder from Chassisworks. See "How do I place an order?"
-----------------------------------
Spare or missing parts availability
-----------------------------------
Request for individual component parts can only be made by email. The TCP product has undergone many part number changes and a great deal of research is required to determine the correct item number. When requesting component information, please provide as much information as possible about the item you are looking for. Digital photos, old parts numbers, approximate time of initial order, make and model of vehicle, or any other information will be helpful. We will fill these as soon as the components become available.
-------------
Tech Support?
-------------
For the foreseeable future tech support will only be available online via email or the tech support forum. It will take some time to train the Chassisworks' sales and tech support staff. Our techs will need time to research your questions so please send as much information as possible. We will expand our tech forum with any relevant new information.
Email: [email protected]
Tech Support Forum: http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/support.html
--------------------------------------
I was a TCP Distributor, what do I do?
--------------------------------------
If you are an existing TCP Distributor you can become a Chassisworks dealer for TCP products and our other brands. Subject to verification or your prior dealer status. Contact Chassisworks' Sales Manager, Jim Wright at (916) 388-0288.
-----------------------------------
I was a TCP Supplier, what do I do?
-----------------------------------
If you were a supplier of components to TCP, please email us a list of items you provided. Include the part number, description, price and quantities. Chassisworks is interested in establishing relationships with all prior suppliers.
Email: [email protected]
---------------------
TCP Product Imitators
---------------------
Whenever a popular product becomes unavailable, even for a short period of time, opportunists will try to fill the void with imitations. Do not be fooled by their claims. Only Chassisworks owns the patents and has the complete engineering and design specifications along with the required fixtures, tooling and test stands to correctly manufacture the products. The TCP product line is comprised of approximately 1,000 individual components. No copy company is clever enough to get everything right. They always claim their new part is better. How can that be when they don't have the experience that comes from being the first to market with years of refining into a mature product? Just because someone can make something that looks similar to a TCP product, doesn't mean they have a comparable product with detailed instructions and expert tech support. Chassisworks acquired all product knowledge with the TCP product line. We will use this information to continually refine existing pr
oducts and develop new ones.
-------------------
Updated Information
-------------------
Any future announcements or updates will be posted on the Total Control Products website. Check back often as more information will be released soon.
http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com
For the latest product information visit us at...
www.totalcontrolproducts.com
-------------------------------------------
If you wish to be removed from this mailing list,
please send your request to...
[email protected]
SUBJECT: REMOVE
DarkBuddha
Founding Member
Chris Alston Chasisworks = 
TCP =
TCP's older prices =
TCP's higher future prices =
dolfan87's setup and price =
Likely hood that I'll ever be able to afford TCP =
Getting decent handling by modifying the stock stuff = :worship:
'nuf said.
TCP =
TCP's older prices =
TCP's higher future prices =
dolfan87's setup and price =
Likely hood that I'll ever be able to afford TCP =
Getting decent handling by modifying the stock stuff = :worship:
'nuf said.
Hack
15 Year Member
This may be a great company and do very good work, but the thing about steel prices affecting their costs??
No, I don't buy it. Steel material is cheap compared to the prices of these low volume parts. Most of the cost for manufacturing small quantities of parts will be wrapped up in labor. It's not like they have a widget machine running 24 hours a day cranking out millions of A-arms. No, they have to make 50 or 100 of something (or maybe only 5 or 10), then tear down and set up for the next part.
I can imagine, though if TCP went out of business obviously the parts cost more than TCP made on them. Just because I'd like to pay $5 for something doesn't mean it's possible for someone to make money selling it to me for $5. I hope Chassisworks can be more efficient at making and selling the stuff, because I'd like it to be cheaper. And I'd like them to make a lot of money so they can develop the next generation of bigger/better Mustang parts.
Go Chassisworks!!
No, I don't buy it. Steel material is cheap compared to the prices of these low volume parts. Most of the cost for manufacturing small quantities of parts will be wrapped up in labor. It's not like they have a widget machine running 24 hours a day cranking out millions of A-arms. No, they have to make 50 or 100 of something (or maybe only 5 or 10), then tear down and set up for the next part.
I can imagine, though if TCP went out of business obviously the parts cost more than TCP made on them. Just because I'd like to pay $5 for something doesn't mean it's possible for someone to make money selling it to me for $5. I hope Chassisworks can be more efficient at making and selling the stuff, because I'd like it to be cheaper. And I'd like them to make a lot of money so they can develop the next generation of bigger/better Mustang parts.
Go Chassisworks!!
dolfan87
Founding Member
Hmmm, well this throws a monkey in the wrench. 
Wondering if this makes my venture worthwhile. Give me your thoughts folks.
87
Wondering if this makes my venture worthwhile. Give me your thoughts folks.
87
one2gamble
Founding Member
If you can make a quality product and stand by it while undercutting their price its worthwhile. Its called competition and its always a good thing, at least for the consumer
mdjay
Premium Sponsor
Hate to tell you this but, TCP has no rights to the major majority of their own products. The only patent they have is the rack! Chassisworks is going to eat all of Terry Buch's debt for nothing!
I wonder if he's taking on the fact that I did 400k with TCP last year and they still owe me 7k? That should account for a free rack, free coilover and maybe the rear too! We were their marketing.
We'll have coilovers within 2 weeks in the Unique Suspension name! High priced or not, we'll crush 'em.
PS Good marketing pitch on the imitator's bit! I'm sure the engineering on this product is so spaceage that it can't be back designed by other qualified engineers!
I wonder if he's taking on the fact that I did 400k with TCP last year and they still owe me 7k? That should account for a free rack, free coilover and maybe the rear too! We were their marketing.
We'll have coilovers within 2 weeks in the Unique Suspension name! High priced or not, we'll crush 'em.
PS Good marketing pitch on the imitator's bit! I'm sure the engineering on this product is so spaceage that it can't be back designed by other qualified engineers!
i agree that alston chassis works are probably the best in the business, but if they think they are going to sell a ton of product after raising the already ridiculous prices TCP was charging they are going to have a bunch of product siting on the shelves foe a long while. i also wonder who they are going to get to supply the power servos for the rack kit, i don't think woodward is going to want to supply them after the letter he wrote about dealing with TCP and saying he didn't want to have any thing to do with classic mustang racks any more. i could be wrong though, we'll see.
Gram, i think you would do well with selling your stuff especially at the prices we were talking about, even more so when alston raises the prices even more. you and i know roughly what it costs to build and sell a comparable product to TCP's stuff and for you to make enough profit to make it worthwhile. i say go for it, if you can keep pricing close to that number especially if you do some advertising in the mustang mags, keep us updated
Gram, i think you would do well with selling your stuff especially at the prices we were talking about, even more so when alston raises the prices even more. you and i know roughly what it costs to build and sell a comparable product to TCP's stuff and for you to make enough profit to make it worthwhile. i say go for it, if you can keep pricing close to that number especially if you do some advertising in the mustang mags, keep us updated
Gram this is a sure opportunity for you, take it!!
As far as I’m concerned, there isn’t that much more then $100 in metal in that coil-over. So when it says the metal price drives up the final price, its bulls-h-i-t!! This company is on the raw end of the deal, they need to win customers back, but high prices will drive them to find cheaper alternatives. Competition drives prices down, if your set-up goes into the market; TCP will be left-out! The general population can’t afford these prices, so the general population will decide who wins, not the eccentrics willing to pay for a $3.000 suspension set-up.
If you advertise to the people, and build the product that we can buy, we will come!!
As far as I’m concerned, there isn’t that much more then $100 in metal in that coil-over. So when it says the metal price drives up the final price, its bulls-h-i-t!! This company is on the raw end of the deal, they need to win customers back, but high prices will drive them to find cheaper alternatives. Competition drives prices down, if your set-up goes into the market; TCP will be left-out! The general population can’t afford these prices, so the general population will decide who wins, not the eccentrics willing to pay for a $3.000 suspension set-up.
If you advertise to the people, and build the product that we can buy, we will come!!
Red Barchetta
Founding Member
The problem with your statement is that you're assuming that the original product was designed by an engineer to begin with. It wasn't. Terry is not an engineer.mdjay said:
one2gamble
Founding Member
The only problem with dolfans skeem is that he has no name, which means a lot to people. It will be up to us on this forum to buy his parts and spread the word. No matter how much advertising you do people need to trust the parts.
Hack
15 Year Member
I think that - once you test your stuff - if you believe you have a comparable product that you can sell at a lower price, you should be able to find buyers. Reading your posts and seeing the picture of the painted hood for your car gave me a good impression of your attention to detail and the pride that you take in the hobby. I don't see you as a guy who would try to pass off crappy stuff.dolfan87 said:Hmmm, well this throws a monkey in the wrench.
Wondering if this makes my venture worthwhile. Give me your thoughts folks.
87
Word of mouth is pretty strong through the internet forums and at car shows, etc. Also, I believe that price is a very strong driver. I know that I'm looking for deals with everything I buy for my car.
About the back-engineering statement in the ad, I'm an engineer, they don't teach you anything magical in school that a bright/hard-working person can't figure out from books or learn from experience. I trust the work of a craftsman with common sense and experience way over something done by a "book-smart" engineer sitting at a desk all day. But like I said before, pricing and word of mouth regarding quality are probably the keys for my buying decisions.
But that's just me..
mdjay said:
Alston did not take on any of the past debt of TCP,not are they obligated to fill any unfilled TCP orders that were paid in advance. Thats still Terry Burch's buisness to be hashed out in the courts, I know it sucks, welcome to corporate america. They simply bought the product line, they have already stated that If you have a previous unfilled order with TCP they have no controls over that and you will need to place a new order with them if you would like it filled... on your dime of course.
Hack said:I think that - once you test your stuff - if you believe you have a comparable product that you can sell at a lower price, you should be able to find buyers. Reading your posts and seeing the picture of the painted hood for your car gave me a good impression of your attention to detail and the pride that you take in the hobby. I don't see you as a guy who would try to pass off crappy stuff.
Word of mouth is pretty strong through the internet forums and at car shows, etc. Also, I believe that price is a very strong driver. I know that I'm looking for deals with everything I buy for my car.
About the back-engineering statement in the ad, I'm an engineer, they don't teach you anything magical in school that a bright/hard-working person can't figure out from books or learn from experience. I trust the work of a craftsman with common sense and experience way over something done by a "book-smart" engineer sitting at a desk all day. But like I said before, pricing and word of mouth regarding quality are probably the keys for my buying decisions.
But that's just me..
LOL not trying to slam anyone here but I work with a handfull of engineers... not one of them could engineer thier way out of a paper bag.. The degree just proves you have the fortitude to sit thru 4 yrs of classes. They tend to spend more time trying to anylize a problem than it would take to pick of a few tools and just fix it. Id take a farmer with a roll of duct tape and bailing wire over them anyday if I were in a big bind.
Being an engineer myself, I have come to the conclusion that there are three types of engineers... 1.those that can solve problems, 2. those that create problems, and 3. those that become managers.
Numbers 2. and 3 are usually the same guy
(rant on)
As for TCP, it is nice that their line of products will be available, but the prices need to reflect reality. Reality is that a competent welder with a jig can turn out one of their control arms in a few minutes. If this is not the case, then they need to work on the processes brought over from TCP. The materials are a factor in cost of any product, but compared to the prices these guys are charging material costs are miniscule. (rant off)
Numbers 2. and 3 are usually the same guy
(rant on)
As for TCP, it is nice that their line of products will be available, but the prices need to reflect reality. Reality is that a competent welder with a jig can turn out one of their control arms in a few minutes. If this is not the case, then they need to work on the processes brought over from TCP. The materials are a factor in cost of any product, but compared to the prices these guys are charging material costs are miniscule. (rant off)
dolfan87
Founding Member
To build an entire coil over set up, including shocks and springs, metal, having the control arm shafts/front of the strut rods machined, rod ends (and we use much larger ends than TCP) the laser cut plates...everything, costs us $900.00.
I wasn't going to let anyone know this, but after thinking about it, I felt that you guys deserve to be in the loop on this. Everyone here knows that to run a business you need to make a fair profit.
I also want to point out that the $900.00 is without us getting a volume discount on ANYTHING. That's paying full pop on every part.
For these guys to be RAISING prices...I don't see it. There just isn't that much steel in these parts to use that as an excuse. Currently TCP charges $2200.00 for their kit, and I KNOW they aren't paying 9 bills to build each set-up.
We are going to move forward, and if nothing else, we will make these guys get their parts down to a reasonable price.
I am a guy in this hobby too, and we all deserve better.
Gram
I wasn't going to let anyone know this, but after thinking about it, I felt that you guys deserve to be in the loop on this. Everyone here knows that to run a business you need to make a fair profit.
I also want to point out that the $900.00 is without us getting a volume discount on ANYTHING. That's paying full pop on every part.
For these guys to be RAISING prices...I don't see it. There just isn't that much steel in these parts to use that as an excuse. Currently TCP charges $2200.00 for their kit, and I KNOW they aren't paying 9 bills to build each set-up.
We are going to move forward, and if nothing else, we will make these guys get their parts down to a reasonable price.
I am a guy in this hobby too, and we all deserve better.
Gram
Business
Hi,
I think that the reason there is a rather high markup on the TCP stuff, as well as many of the items we buy for our classic ponies, is the size of the market.
If the market could support Alston's selling 100K units in 3 years, then the price would/could be notably lower. Unfortunately, its more likely that they will sell 500 units in the next 3 years.
Regardless of the number of units they sell, they have to have
1) liability insurance
2) manufacturing and materials contracts
3) manufacturing facilities
4) technical support staff for the product
5) administrative overhead
6) they still have to payoff the initial buy in
Its the same way with Griggs. This is a niche market. There are a lot of engineering, development, testing, and support costs. Those, combined with a narrow market equal premium prices.
Alston's is not going to get rich selling TCP products. I do hope that he can build it into a self-sustaining element of his overall business because I like the front end products.
DOLFAN & co - don't stop what you are doing! Because on top of everything I just said, the only force that could prevent the prices from going into the stratosphere is COMPETITION
-jer
Hi,
I think that the reason there is a rather high markup on the TCP stuff, as well as many of the items we buy for our classic ponies, is the size of the market.
If the market could support Alston's selling 100K units in 3 years, then the price would/could be notably lower. Unfortunately, its more likely that they will sell 500 units in the next 3 years.
Regardless of the number of units they sell, they have to have
1) liability insurance
2) manufacturing and materials contracts
3) manufacturing facilities
4) technical support staff for the product
5) administrative overhead
6) they still have to payoff the initial buy in
Its the same way with Griggs. This is a niche market. There are a lot of engineering, development, testing, and support costs. Those, combined with a narrow market equal premium prices.
Alston's is not going to get rich selling TCP products. I do hope that he can build it into a self-sustaining element of his overall business because I like the front end products.
DOLFAN & co - don't stop what you are doing! Because on top of everything I just said, the only force that could prevent the prices from going into the stratosphere is COMPETITION
-jer
1320stang
Founding Member
Hate to tell some of you this, but steel prices have more than doubled in the past 6-8 months. I'm in the construction industry and we're also doing an addition to my church where we've had the structure re-engineered for wood and we'll save more than enough to compensate for the change. China has been buying up all the scrap in the states, many of you don't realize it, but they're on the cusp of a major change in the socio-economic status in the world, ie., they're getting ready to become the world's next super power, most likely taking the former USSR's place as the US's main competitor. Just wait boys and girls, the void left by bringing down the great bear is getting ready to be filled by the great panda.
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