TCP lives!!

[jerry S]

To build an entire coil over set up, including shocks and springs, metal, having the control arm shafts/front of the strut rods machined, rod ends (and we use much larger ends than TCP) the laser cut plates...everything, costs us $900.00.

I wasn't going to let anyone know this, but after thinking about it, I felt that you guys deserve to be in the loop on this. Everyone here knows that to run a business you need to make a fair profit.

I also want to point out that the $900.00 is without us getting a volume discount on ANYTHING. That's paying full pop on every part.

Gram

Ok, so know you know your direct materials' cost and your direct labor cost. Before anyone bashes TCP for their pricing, consider that Gram still needs to factor into his selling price his non-manufacturing costs, which is his SG&A expenses. I bet that these will add another $400 to the price of each unit, assuming he gets prod. liabil. coverage.

 

[gp001]

To build an entire coil over set up, including shocks and springs, metal, having the control arm shafts/front of the strut rods machined, rod ends (and we use much larger ends than TCP) the laser cut plates...everything, costs us $900.00.

I wasn't going to let anyone know this, but after thinking about it, I felt that you guys deserve to be in the loop on this. Everyone here knows that to run a business you need to make a fair profit.

I also want to point out that the $900.00 is without us getting a volume discount on ANYTHING. That's paying full pop on every part.

For these guys to be RAISING prices...I don't see it. There just isn't that much steel in these parts to use that as an excuse. Currently TCP charges $2200.00 for their kit, and I KNOW they aren't paying 9 bills to build each set-up.

We are going to move forward, and if nothing else, we will make these guys get their parts down to a reasonable price.

I am a guy in this hobby too, and we all deserve better.

Gram

Gram,

I think your parts have a much better chance. Just make sure they are solidly built (which they seem to be) and make sure replacement parts (rod ends, ball joints, etc) are common pieces that people can purchase themselves down the road and I think you'll do fine.

I don't know about anyone else, but I smell gouge the Ford guys. Chasisworks is a Chevy based company that doesn't even know who the TCP suppliers are and what part numbers they need, yet they already know they need to raise prices? And I didn't see any "price increases" on their website for the stuff they already sell. Wouldn't the same market conditions apply?

-----------------------------------
I was a TCP Supplier, what do I do?
-----------------------------------
If you were a supplier of components to TCP, please email us a list of items you provided. Include the part number, description, price and quantities. Chassisworks is interested in establishing relationships with all prior suppliers.

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There currently is a global shortage of steel and other raw materials. Some materials have increased almost 50%. Due to this market condition the pricing of many items will have to be increased.

 

[Opentracker]

I am a guy in this hobby too, and we all deserve better.

Amen!


The cost of parts is way too high in my opinion. The wedge kit, camber kit, anything from Cobra Automotive ($620 for a pair of lower arms!), Griggs stuff, TCPs stuff, $500 for a set of racing brake pads from MP. It's just too much.


I know Terry Bush. He is a good man and a true gearhead. We have ran with him at OT events for years. I even passed the TCP car one session when he wasn't driving. Then got my doors blown off the next time out. He may not be a engineer or a top notch buisiness man but he did a lot for our sport. If TCP didn't come along where would we be? I would think that just looking at his stuff gave us all some ideas. I know it did me. It's folks like him and Gram who take our sport to the next level. We should applaud thier efforts, not point the finger when things go wrong. I'm sure if Terry had his way about it you would all have your stuff. Politics can screw up anything, even car parts. I wish Terry and his family all the best. If you read this Terry, your welcome to take any of our cars out and blow off some steam anytime you like.

I admire Grams spunk to go forward no matter what. He has come up with a prime example of competition at it's best. If you don't see what you want in the store, go home and make it yourself and his stuff looks great.

John

 

[66 BLAKE 96]

The prices were already laughable. To increase them at all is an insult, to blame the increase on the price of steel is just a swift kick to the shorts. I personally wouldn't buy anything branded as TCP in the future. Screw them for trying to screw us.

 

[Hack]

The prices were already laughable. To increase them at all is an insult, to blame the increase on the price of steel is just a swift kick to the shorts. I personally wouldn't buy anything branded as TCP in the future. Screw them for trying to screw us.

If he was making a fortune, why did he go out of business? It's expensive to make low volume stuff.

 

[skywalker]

Hate to tell some of you this, but steel prices have more than doubled in the past 6-8 months. I'm in the construction industry and we're also doing an addition to my church where we've had the structure re-engineered for wood and we'll save more than enough to compensate for the change. China has been buying up all the scrap in the states, many of you don't realize it, but they're on the cusp of a major change in the socio-economic status in the world, ie., they're getting ready to become the world's next super power, most likely taking the former USSR's place as the US's main competitor. Just wait boys and girls, the void left by bringing down the great bear is getting ready to be filled by the great panda.

In my mind they've already filled that void. Which is a reason I've been advocating increasing the size of our military for a while - China isn't to far from being a grave danger to us.

 

[foghorn67]

If he was making a fortune, why did he go out of business? It's expensive to make low volume stuff.

bad management. there was an link to an insider story a while ago detailing some of things gone awry.

 

[dolfan87]

Insurance is the great unknown right now. I have talked with several fab shops who don't even carry insurance. They paid a lawyer X amount of money to come up with a liability disclaimer, and then went with it.

I want insurance, so that is something I will have to look into.

Gram

 

[bnickel]

If he was making a fortune, why did he go out of business? It's expensive to make low volume stuff

my personal opinion is that were selling to a niche market and unfortunately made that niche smaller by raising the prices, remember when the power rack was only 1500 bucks? there were people slaving away saving their money up for that and when they had almost enough saved up BAM!! now it's $2500, of course they did lower it back down to $2000 but still..... and the other thing that killed them was mustangs plus, i don't think they ever recovered from that ordeal and i also think that the was the biggest nail in the coffin. had they not gone to the "exclusive distributorship" at mustangs plus and the resultant exorbitant pricing structure, they would most likely still be around.

i'm, sure Terry Buch was a great guy and i agree we wouldn't have a lot of the stuff we have today had it not been for him, but he was not the first to build tubular control arms (global west did that almost 20 years ago) i'm also pretty sure he was not the first to build a coilover system for our cars and while he may have been the first to market the rack kit i doubt he was the first to make one fit. he was definately the first to market everything together as a "package" so to speak. so he did do a lot for the hobby, but with tcp's demise it does show there needs to be more than one company building this stuff.

Gram, you better get to building stuff, buddy

 

[1320stang]

Insurance is the great unknown right now. I have talked with several fab shops who don't even carry insurance. They paid a lawyer X amount of money to come up with a liability disclaimer, and then went with it.

I want insurance, so that is something I will have to look into.

Gram

Gram, this is going to be the kick in the Nads. I put on a car show on Memorial Day Weekend on the University of Oklahoma campus for one day. My insurance policy was for $1,000,000 property and $1,000,000 liability and it cost me $636. I held a race at the drag strip the day before and had to pay the track's policy and it was just under $700, but I'm not sure of the coverages. K&K insurance out of Indiana has specialty insurance for events, they quoted me around $500, but since I didn't have an existing policy with them, it'd cost me $5,000 to get set up. I got another quote for $1,800 for the day. I don't think my buddy that owns the race car chassis shop carries any liability insurance either. Society has become so sue happy and the damn insurance comanies and lawyers are getting fat off of it.

 

[66 BLAKE 96]

If he was making a fortune, why did he go out of business? It's expensive to make low volume stuff.

There are plenty of ways to go out of business, and if they couldn't make a profit from those outrageous prices, nobody would be in that business. There are plenty of theorys on diminishing returns and such, but an argument could surely be made that they could make more bottom line $ by lowering prices (thereby selling more).

 

[dolfan87]

Gram, you better get to building stuff, buddy

Oh alright.

 

[mdjay]

Alston did not take on any of the past debt of TCP,not are they obligated to fill any unfilled TCP orders that were paid in advance. Thats still Terry Burch's buisness to be hashed out in the courts, I know it sucks, welcome to corporate america. They simply bought the product line, they have already stated that If you have a previous unfilled order with TCP they have no controls over that and you will need to place a new order with them if you would like it filled... on your dime of course.

Of course I realize what he bought. I'm not expecting anything from him. What I meant was the money he spent for the rights is going toward Terry's debts, is not well spent.

 

[mdjay]

Amen!


The cost of parts is way too high in my opinion. The wedge kit, camber kit, anything from Cobra Automotive ($620 for a pair of lower arms!), Griggs stuff, TCPs stuff, $500 for a set of racing brake pads from MP. It's just too much.


I know Terry Bush. He is a good man and a true gearhead. We have ran with him at OT events for years. I even passed the TCP car one session when he wasn't driving. Then got my doors blown off the next time out. He may not be a engineer or a top notch buisiness man but he did a lot for our sport. If TCP didn't come along where would we be? I would think that just looking at his stuff gave us all some ideas. I know it did me. It's folks like him and Gram who take our sport to the next level. We should applaud thier efforts, not point the finger when things go wrong. I'm sure if Terry had his way about it you would all have your stuff. Politics can screw up anything, even car parts. I wish Terry and his family all the best. If you read this Terry, your welcome to take any of our cars out and blow off some steam anytime you like.

I admire Grams spunk to go forward no matter what. He has come up with a prime example of competition at it's best. If you don't see what you want in the store, go home and make it yourself and his stuff looks great.

John

Point taken. I agree Terry's a nice guy who can drive the hell out of a race car, but it's tough to be on his team when he owes you money...

 

[one2gamble]

Hi,
I think that the reason there is a rather high markup on the TCP stuff, as well as many of the items we buy for our classic ponies, is the size of the market.

If the market could support Alston's selling 100K units in 3 years, then the price would/could be notably lower. Unfortunately, its more likely that they will sell 500 units in the next 3 years.




-jer

In my opinion of they produced as many of their units as are produced for stock rebuilds the prices could come down to comparable amounts. Think about what would happen if they stopped building oem style front suspensions and only went with the new set ups. The prices would plummet and the market for the parts would be 5x as big as it is now. The main reason its a niche market is people dont have that kind of money to put into their suspension that these set ups currently cost. If the price was within range of a stock rebuild and made the car significantly better to drive there would be no reason to not go with these parts. (when I say within range Im thinking 15% or so maybe a little more)

 

[skywalker]

In my opinion of they produced as many of their units as are produced for stock rebuilds the prices could come down to comparable amounts. Think about what would happen if they stopped building oem style front suspensions and only went with the new set ups. The prices would plummet and the market for the parts would be 5x as big as it is now. The main reason its a niche market is people dont have that kind of money to put into their suspension that these set ups currently cost. If the price was within range of a stock rebuild and made the car significantly better to drive there would be no reason to not go with these parts. (when I say within range Im thinking 15% or so maybe a little more)

Bottomline, IMO, you will have a hardtime selling products like this and only marketing to one type of car. Diversity is probably the only way to turn a sustained profit.

 

[one2gamble]

I dont disagree with that statement

 

[mdjay]

tcp

Bottomline, IMO, you will have a hardtime selling products like this and only marketing to one type of car. Diversity is probably the only way to turn a sustained profit.

Good point. Unique plans on carrying the line through other makes and models...

 

[streetgrande69]

mdjay, can you enlighten us on how someone like gram gets a place like mustang depot to carry an item produced @ a home shop?

 

[DarkBuddha]

Look, it just matter what the argument is for either the complaint against, or justification for higher prices... There is simply no f***ing way I'm ever gonna pay that kind of money for anything like that! (unless I win the lottery) Maybe the prices may be complete fair for what you get, but that doesn't make it any more affordable.

OT on:

In my mind they've already filled that void. Which is a reason I've been advocating increasing the size of our military for a while - China isn't to far from being a grave danger to us.

I totally understand where you're coming from. Those evil red commies! I just got back from China and each and every home is equipped with a poster reading "DEATH TO THE AMERICANS" Oh, and I was actually jumped by a bunch of Chinese exchange students when I got back... they pelted me with their computer engineering books and scientific calculators.

[sarcasm off]

Come on now... why is it that we have to build a bigger military just because another country is building its economy? China is becoming more and more western in so many ways that its bordering on CAPITALISM! They've grown a legitimate middle class that is generally pleased with its situation and lifestyle, and they now have disposable income and can purchase cars. All the major car companies (including all the US car makers) are investing large amounts of money and engineering in manufacturing cars for that market. In fact, China is one of the main reasons for the increase in the cost of gas... they're a growing market competing with ours.

Now maybe this is why we assume they're some big threat to our way of life... they're using OUR gas, buying OUR cars, loving OUR entertainment. Hell, I hear there is a McDonalds in Kabul Afganistan. Its as if we must stop the evil spread of this consumerism so that OUR country is still better. Or maybe it means we're all finding some common ground and we all become more alike... Oh no, who will Americans have left to hate if everyone is just like us??? Will we have to hate ourselves???

Bless the USA, and keep our children safe.