tell me how to weld up side down????

mtaqua · May 25, 2008

Anyone have any tips? I've found that I hate it. I don't want to buy/make a rotisserie. I've been welding up my floor pans on the bottom. Just when I thought I was getting good at welding, I went to the bottom. I finished one side, but it is horrible, and I ended up just doing spot welds. It will take some serious grinding.

I still have the other side floor pan, subframes, cross member and a couple welds in the back for the leaf spring relocation. There has to be a trick. Should I go hotter on the power, quicker on the wire?

01ragtop · May 25, 2008

Are you using all the proper PPE?(welders jacket, gloves, fire proof head sock) How high is the car? If you can get it high enough that you aren't lying on your back it will still suck, but not quite as bad. You may have already thought of this stuff though.

EDIT also check out this link: http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=19167&highlight=welding+overhead

They start talking about GMAW overhead in post #11. I think they do a better job of explaining than I could

EP429 · May 25, 2008

As for your heat and wire speed, overhead runs similar to flat, except for the buckshot running down your sleeves Don't feel bad, I'm in school for welding and your first whack at overhead never turns out nice. I run my speed and heat slightly lower than flat, just to keep things civilized. Find some scrap iron, and start practicing again. Find whatever setting works best for you, don't be afraid to expreiment.

If you pull your bead, it's going to sag and overall look ugly. Pushing your bead tends to keep it smoother and flatter. Downside is you cant see your pool all too well, but if you practice enough you'll learn how the bead lays.
As previously mentioned, when doing overhead, you'll really learn to appreciate your PPE. Make sure you tuck your sleeves into your glove, avoid staying directly under your weld, and I'd suggest getting a pair of thick leather sleeves.
Don't overlook safety, keep yourself well ventilated, covered up, and have adequate workspace.
Keep us posted!

mtaqua · May 25, 2008

I've kind of been a little more lax than I should on the PPE. GOt burned a couple of times. I have the car on jack stands, and it is high enough for me to prop my head up with my arm. Not high enough to be on my knees. I am thinking about trying to go higher and still be safe. If it were to fall now, it would land on the tires and just scare me. So I am thinking about some safe ways to get it higher.

After looking at your link it looks like cleaner area, faster wire, and push. I'll experiment tomorrow. The two issues I was having was lack of sticking (clean it up better), and tons of sag (hopefully faster wire will fix this).

EP429 · May 25, 2008

By far my favorite approach to getting some headroom is to stick a thick rim under each tire. Swing by your local boneyards and see if they got some junker duallys or something laying around. If all else fails, weld a few normal rims together. Provides a nice solid base for your tires to sit in

EDIT : More wire speed wont fix your sagging, try instead increasing how fast you move your gun. Moving too slow induces sag.

zookeeper · May 26, 2008

On sheetmetal, I never weld beads, regardless of position. Instead, try making a series of tacks. In other words, hold your trigger and make (roughly) three small circles and count to yourself, "one thousand-one, one-thousand-two" and stop. Then move forward about half the diamter of the circle you just made and do it again. This allows the metal to cool so you don't burn a hole, plus it prevents sagging. If I'm welding vertical with a wire feed, I weld downhill, it seems to make better welds.

67rcks · May 26, 2008

Auto darkening helmet is IMO all you need, in addition to a thicker cloth, not necessarily a leather. No rocket science about this. Use lowest setting or maybe second lowest, first make spot welds all around. Have the panels completely pressed when welding, so an assistant is helpful.

EP429 · May 26, 2008

I usually do 3/8 thick metal in long beads, heavy leather is a must in my trade
for sheetmetal, thicker cloth will do fine. And ditto on auto-darkeners, they make a world of difference.

10secgoal · May 26, 2008

Don't lower the heat. If it was right before welding, it is still correct. You don't want to just put metal there. You want to make sure it's actually welding. It's a fine line, but you should only need to turn down the speed a little, not much.

mtaqua · May 26, 2008

The auto darkening helmet was one of the best tools I've ever purchased. Well I went full PPE today and it was much better. For the grinding I bought a full face shield to put over the goggles. That also made things much more pleasant. As far as the welding, I went to a push only. That helped quite a bit. Also I tried moving faster, but was getting some skipping. So I sped the wire speed up a little. That also helped. So for me pushing, moving faster and speeding up the wire a little helped my overhead welds. The sag was decreased, the welds were sticking, and some of them looked decent. I think I might be able to get away with not buying/making a rotisserie. Once I get all the welds on the bottom I'll be cleaning/stripping and painting. Not really looking forward to that.

01ragtop · May 26, 2008

mtaqua said:
The auto darkening helmet was one of the best tools I've ever purchased. Well I went full PPE today and it was much better. For the grinding I bought a full face shield to put over the goggles. That also made things much more pleasant. As far as the welding, I went to a push only. That helped quite a bit. Also I tried moving faster, but was getting some skipping. So I sped the wire speed up a little. That also helped. So for me pushing, moving faster and speeding up the wire a little helped my overhead welds. The sag was decreased, the welds were sticking, and some of them looked decent. I think I might be able to get away with not buying/making a rotisserie. Once I get all the welds on the bottom I'll be cleaning/stripping and painting. Not really looking forward to that.

Good to hear!

I'll second the auto-darkening helmet remark! Between that and wearing the PPE, it is amazing how much better you can concentrate when you don't have to worry about starting in the right place, and then once your started, worrying about molten metal landing in your ear canal or catching you hair on fire.

Good luck on the project, and let us know how it goes!

zookeeper · May 26, 2008

You ear remark brings up a VERY important point: one of the guys I work with lost all hearing in one ear due a stray chunk of molten metal finding it's way in there while he was welding. He had 3 operations to try to save the eardrum, and now has frequent ear infections and no hearing. If you're welding overhead or in a confined space, try wearing earplugs or perhaps one of those thin welders hats that cover your ears.

kttrucks · May 26, 2008

Another thing to remember is to practice and set your welder on similar scrap before committing to your project. If your wire speed and voltage are set right for welding right side up, chances are you're gonna be real close upside down too, and then you can do a minimal tweak to your preference. Speaking for myself, I get lazy sometimes and test my bead/stitch on my actual workpiece instead of scrap...... upside down is much more difficult to focus and you dont need to be setting your machine while worrying about your pool and pace. The suggestion of PPE being the first thing to take care of is exactly right.... it's hard to concentrate with the sound of your skin frying under your shirtsleaves or between your T-shirt and belt..... A welding blanket looks goofy as heck, but it'll keep the hot stuff off your body if you absolutely have to weld lying down.

Good luck!

Hope this helps!

KT.

tell me how to weld up side down????

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