I ahve finally seen the light that there nothing better than a mustang. I usta be into the rice rocket world and i am not totally educated on mustangs yet so i would like to know what setup would be best for a daily driver setup in the 302,351,460. These must be carburated and must get above 15 mpg average. It would go in a 1990-1993 rolling chasiss and it would have to be able to be a manual and be able to smoke about anything around.
The Ulitmate Daily Driver
- Thread starter Drew2o2
- Start date
Best daily driver would be an injected, blown 327/331. Next after that would be an injected 327/331.
Why a 327/331? You use a stock block with minimal clearancing, full skirt pistons for minimum wobble. This is unlike a 347, which uses reduced skirt slipper pistons that have less skirt and more wobble. This makes for an engine that when properly built, will last 100K miles or more. The engine is light, and with some aluminum heads, can be even lighter. This helps the weight distribution: it gets the weight off the front end of the car and makes for better handling. The 351 and 460 blocks are much heavier in comparison.
Why fuel injection - there is no doubt that an injected engine can get better gas mileage than a carb'd engine. The computer constantly adjusts the Air/Fuel ratio for best economy in cruse, but enriches it for max power on demand. Want a richer A/F for a run? - Turn up the fuel pressure or use one of the portable tuner devices that have become so affordable. Carbs just can not do that: you either tune for max power or max economy. Tune in the middle and you don't get either one.
HP output to expect? N/A with a 327/331 will get you an easy 400 HP at the wheels with a very streetable tune. Put an intercooled Procharger and get 700 HP, which is more than the stock block will take for an extended time.
Couple this with a Tremec TKO 600 5 speed or T56 six speed and you have a combo that is hard to beat in anybody's book. You'll have enough torque that 3.55's will be all you'll need for rear end gears. That coupled with the overdrive top gear can get you 23-27 MPG on the highway.
Yes, big blocks and 351 strokers are great, but they require some definite extra money and work to fit, and probably won't meet your 15 MPG goal. The extra torque is great, but communicating that to the ground so that it doesn't go up in smoke is difficult in street trim. A daily driver with D/R tires can be dangerous on slick streets.
Why a 327/331? You use a stock block with minimal clearancing, full skirt pistons for minimum wobble. This is unlike a 347, which uses reduced skirt slipper pistons that have less skirt and more wobble. This makes for an engine that when properly built, will last 100K miles or more. The engine is light, and with some aluminum heads, can be even lighter. This helps the weight distribution: it gets the weight off the front end of the car and makes for better handling. The 351 and 460 blocks are much heavier in comparison.
Why fuel injection - there is no doubt that an injected engine can get better gas mileage than a carb'd engine. The computer constantly adjusts the Air/Fuel ratio for best economy in cruse, but enriches it for max power on demand. Want a richer A/F for a run? - Turn up the fuel pressure or use one of the portable tuner devices that have become so affordable. Carbs just can not do that: you either tune for max power or max economy. Tune in the middle and you don't get either one.
HP output to expect? N/A with a 327/331 will get you an easy 400 HP at the wheels with a very streetable tune. Put an intercooled Procharger and get 700 HP, which is more than the stock block will take for an extended time.
Couple this with a Tremec TKO 600 5 speed or T56 six speed and you have a combo that is hard to beat in anybody's book. You'll have enough torque that 3.55's will be all you'll need for rear end gears. That coupled with the overdrive top gear can get you 23-27 MPG on the highway.
Yes, big blocks and 351 strokers are great, but they require some definite extra money and work to fit, and probably won't meet your 15 MPG goal. The extra torque is great, but communicating that to the ground so that it doesn't go up in smoke is difficult in street trim. A daily driver with D/R tires can be dangerous on slick streets.
I couldn't agree more with jrichker. If gas mileage is important, fuel injection and overdrive transmissions are the answer. A light, aerodynamic car is important as well, but the Mustang has that covered.
Just to prove my point, look at the new Z06 vette coming out. Fuel injected 7.0 liter engine (427cui), 6 speed (double overdrive) transmission, in a car that weighs approximately 3000 lbs. All this equals 500++ HP, high 11's in the 1/4, and 26 MPG ON THE HIGHWAY. Hard to believe huh.
A built 331 would be the way to go. If this is out of your budget, do a built 302 or at least a bolt on 302 and go from there. Stay with a 5 speed and be reasonable with your rear gear (3.55's) and you should get AT LEAST 20 mpg on the highway. I have achieved 25 mpg on mine in the past (all highway). I am pretty sure others have done better than this.
Again, I think jrichker is right on the money,
Gears
Just to prove my point, look at the new Z06 vette coming out. Fuel injected 7.0 liter engine (427cui), 6 speed (double overdrive) transmission, in a car that weighs approximately 3000 lbs. All this equals 500++ HP, high 11's in the 1/4, and 26 MPG ON THE HIGHWAY. Hard to believe huh.
A built 331 would be the way to go. If this is out of your budget, do a built 302 or at least a bolt on 302 and go from there. Stay with a 5 speed and be reasonable with your rear gear (3.55's) and you should get AT LEAST 20 mpg on the highway. I have achieved 25 mpg on mine in the past (all highway). I am pretty sure others have done better than this.
Again, I think jrichker is right on the money,
Gears
efi conversion is all bolt on. If you are smart enough to tune a carb, you should have no problem with efi. Especially if you hang around here for a while.Drew2o2 said:
If you start with a bare chassis, it may be more expensive (up front) to install efi. However, durability/drivability/economy are all better with efi. If you have to pass emissions then there really isn't much more debate. Find a decent 302 car to start with, and things get much simpler.
jrichker provided some good options.
But, I actually have to disagree with his finishing comments on 351w strokers. The 408w in my sig is a daily driver. I did list my fuel economy, which has the worst and the best economy I have acheived on the road. This is with ps, stock water pump, and 165A alt. I hope to do a little better with e- fan, and maybe e- water pump, in the near future.
It will cost a little more to convert to 351w as there are some conversion parts that are required, intake, oil pan, etc. The payoff, in my opinion, is well worth it.
jason
Dbeck002
New Member
I dont know why people hate EFI, i think its great.
There are bugs with any fuel delivery system, thats what the forums are for.
Go with exactly what Jrich said, thats my plan down the road. I have a good HCI setup now on a stock bottom end and in a few months ill swap those onto the 331, same block. EFI accepts mods very well too, you just gotta be familiar with it.
There are bugs with any fuel delivery system, thats what the forums are for.
Go with exactly what Jrich said, thats my plan down the road. I have a good HCI setup now on a stock bottom end and in a few months ill swap those onto the 331, same block. EFI accepts mods very well too, you just gotta be familiar with it.
Drew2o2 said:
If I were you, I would sell the rolling chassis and by a used 5.0. It takes a lot less work and less time doing it this way. Used Mustangs are pretty cheap and you could find one thats already modified that will be cheaper in the long run.
Really give this idea some thought,
Gears
This is a little on topic, but i just did the break in for a friend of mine who just built up a 347 for his GT. It's a very modest build up, no exotic or crazy expensive parts....in fact i believe he only has about 14-1600 bucks in the engine COMPLETE, and that's including GT40p heads, Edelbrock Performer intake and X303 cam. He hasn't gotten it tuned yet but it runs solid as hell....torque on tap and extremely responsive. My car will run mid-high 13s all day long...not really fast but not slow...this car felt so much stronger than mine it wasn't funny. He paid 600 for a used/never installed stroker kit and did the build himself.
Also if i had it converted to accept a roller cage and had the conversion lifters could i use a late sixtys /early seventies block with all the internal ment for a roller 5.0. Like are any of the demension any different or are any mounts in a different place. And is a it true that the the sictys ans seveties blocks are the strongest. And would this type of block accept everything need for the efi.
The 90-93 5.0 Mustangs will have the EFI wiring in place if you buy a running one that hasn't been butchered. Other than that, see http://www.SummitRacing.com or http://www.fordracingparts.com/home/home.asp
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