Progress Thread Therapy Car-- Freshening Up the Lower Intake

7991LXnSHO · Mar 2, 2020

I admire your family’s work ethic and practice. I bet they would rather have you doing some of the work rather than hiring someone who probably would care less and not be as reliable.
That’s a lot of miles on the Altima! I hope you had the seat repadded at least once in there. Otherwise, it had to be as squished as an old recliner.

Now, the insurance on my 1991 Mustang’s is cheaper than on the old six cylinder car. With an airbag and factory shoulder seatbelts, the medical part of the coverage is much less. But the loss formulas have changed in 20+ years.

Olivethefet · Mar 2, 2020

I just checked the car. The coolant hasn't gone anywhere it isn't supposed to yet! Filled it up with throw away oil. Tomorrow before it gets late I'll fire it up and get it up to temp. Then check the oil. I'm sure it's going to be nasty. I cant do it tonight because "the car is too loud".

Olivethefet · Mar 3, 2020

It runs!!!

View: https://youtu.be/6IPf41A2ZCU

2Blue2 · Mar 3, 2020

Lumpedey lumpedey lumpedey
Sounds good, I give it three cookies!

Olivethefet · Mar 3, 2020

We're not out of the woods yet. This is what came out of the engine.

I'll get some more cheap oil and a filter and try it again.

Rdub6 · Mar 3, 2020

Olivethefet said:
We're not out of the woods yet. This is what came out of the engine.

I'll get some more cheap oil and a filter and try it again.

Oh man!! Fingers crossed for you!! That clip sounded nice. Thought you had it beat.

KZGUNS · Mar 4, 2020

@Olivethefet are you using rtv on all gaskets that seal water? Sealing any threads that go into water jackets?

Olivethefet · Mar 4, 2020

As far as I know, yes. The only things that have come off of this engine are the timing chain cover, thermostat housing, and oil pan. I just took the timing chain cover off to replace the gasket. I had not sealed it up very well. This time I used lots of this putting it back on https://www.permatex.com/products/g...nge-sealants/permatex-anaerobic-gasket-maker/

I was really surprised when all of that came out. I was expecting some milky stuff but not that much. On the way home today I'm going to get some fresh oil, filter, and rent a radiator pressure tester.

I've done this job before with no issues. I dont know what is going on this time.

Olivethefet · Mar 5, 2020

This is so frustrating. I've done this job before and did not have this much trouble. I used a ton of that gasket maker when I put the timing cover gasket on, but apparently it still didn't seal.

More water was coming out of the pan last night as well. The leak showed up when I put a little pressure on the system to test it. I dont know if I'll even mess with it tonight. Need one of those step away from it moments. When I do this AGAIN I'm just going to use excessive amounts of black RTV. If that doesn't work I might have to shoot something.

stanglx2002 · Mar 5, 2020

We have all been here when you "complete" a project, and the issue comes right back with sometimes even worse than before. It is a good plan to step back from the situation, gather the necessary gaskets and parts, and plan for the job again.

One of the biggest items with using gasket maker is not the fact that you need to use a LOT of the stuff, but making sure that it has the time to semi-cure. Then you can reinstall the part loosely, and finally tighten it back up.

I just replaced the thermostat in my black mustang doing these steps:
1. Clean the mating surfaces of any gasket material
2. Wipe the surfaces with carb cleaner, alcohol, brake cleaner, or similar to make sure there is no grease or antifreeze than could compromise the seal
3. Apply a thin layer of gasket maker to the surface or gasket. I apply it to both surfaces in your case timing cover and block
4. Wait an hour for the gasket maker to skim over
5. Install the part not letting the surfaces touch, slowly tightening the bolts until the surfaces come together, but are still loose not tightened down
6. Wait another hour or two and go tighten the bolts like normal
7. Wait 24-48 hours before adding fluid back

Dont know if this is any help, but thought it may

General karthief · Mar 5, 2020

Check that cover real good for cracks, this much trouble I would replace it.

JKWilson61 · Mar 5, 2020

I saw something in your very last pic that leads me to believe I may have found your problem....wrong timing cover. In your last pic I noticed the fuel pump block off plate. I also checked back to the pic you posted on page #2 showing the front of the timing cover with no pump installed. After doing a little digging I found pics of a reverse rotation timing cover versus a standard rotation cover. The one currently on your engine appears to be a standard rotation cover. The water passage on the left side (right side looking at the front of the motor) should point the opposite way (the "D" should face up, not down). Just a thought!

General karthief · Mar 5, 2020

I noticed that too, I also believe there may be a reverse rotation cover that has a fuel pump boss, I know they make one with the boss that is closed off.I
I have seen a few threads (not on stangnet that I remember) that say it does not matter. I don't believe that.

JKWilson61 · Mar 5, 2020

General karthief said:
I noticed that too, I also believe there may be a reverse rotation cover that has a fuel pump boss, I know they make one with the boss that is closed off.I
I have seen a few threads (not on stangnet that I remember) that say it does not matter. I don't believe that.

I'd have to agree with ya. My mention of the fuel pump boss was simply to say that's what got me looking back at his other pics. That's when I noticed the water passage differences (and what I believe is a crank trigger mount too). For total transparency sake, the images I posted are a composite of a standard and reverse rotation cover from Edelbrock. It was the best place I could get images to illustrate. I edited the picture to point out the difference I mentioned, The right side passages are opposite too.

Olivethefet · Mar 5, 2020

Well poop. Thanks for the great information. I'm going to ask a dumb question here so bear with me. As far as the water pump rotation goes for the fox 5.0 are they all reverse rotation? Looking at how the belt wraps around it, no matter what components you remove, it always ends up rotating in the same direction.

Given what I have found as I go through this car it would not surprise me to find that it has the wrong timing chain cover. I'm planning on going to see my folks in NA this weekend and will need to get ready for that weekend trip tonight, so I doubt that I will get to mess with it until Sunday or even Monday. If I do I will inspect the cover and post pics on here.

Its stuff like this that makes this site an awesome community to be a part of. I appreciate the advice and you guys putting up with my ramblings!

Olivethefet · Mar 5, 2020

I've been doing a little internet digging during lunch. Maybe my timing chain cover is for a standard rotation water pump. Meaning it is meant for an older v-belt drive application like on a 65. Great good information. However, looking at pics of covers online the major difference in what I need and what I might have is the direction the D shaped ports for the pump goes and the opening for the mechanical fuel pump. The cover I need should be an EFI unit in reverse rotation. What I gather is all water pumps on 5.0 Foxes starting in 83 should have reverse rotation pumps as they use serpentine belts.

All good info. Regardless of whether the cover is for standard rotation or reverse rotation where the cover mates with the block is the same on both covers and should not result in leaks. My cover is currently leaking externally at the block. Not where the water pump connects to the cover.

I've got to pull the thing back off no matter what. I've already got a spare gasket for the pump. I'll go ahead and pull the pump just to verify that it is the correct cover. If it isn't then I'll get the correct one. They are currently sold out on LMR.

Anyway, all good info.

As far as the leaks and water getting into the engine does having the correct direction water pump have anything to do with that? I understand that it could create cooling issues or leaks where the pump mounts to the cover.

OR am I just focused on the water leaking into the engine thing and missing the point that you guys are trying to help me with my possible cooling issue? I get confused easy, so I can see where that is all that's going on.

Olivethefet · Mar 5, 2020

I think this is the pic from earlier in this thread that you guys are referring to.

This is a pic from LMR's website of the timing chain cover they sell.

Looks just like mine. This is what Edelbrock has on their website listed for application on a 86-93 5.0.

This is what @JKWilson61 posted earlier. Now I'm really confused.

Jegs has this cover listed for use with standard or reverse rotation water pumps.

JEGS 50300: Timing Cover for 1966-1995 Small Block Ford 289-302-351W - JEGS High Performance

small block ford timing cover, timing cover, ford timing cover

www.jegs.com

droopie85gt · Mar 5, 2020

I've heard tons of people say it doesn't matter. I know on my 85 when I still had a carb, I replaced the timing cover and drilled out the opening for the fuel pump. IIRC it was tapped for 2 bolts but was cast closed off for the pump. I have no idea what the water passages looked like. I'll see if any pics show just the timing cover before I put on the water pump.

I don't know if it makes a hill of beans, but I would move the battery ground to the block. It seems that going to the timing cover, which is partially insulated by gaskets and sealant might not be the best way. Plus steel bolts into aluminum want to sieze by themselves, let alone throwing any electrical it's way.

Rdub6 · Mar 5, 2020

I don’t know nothing from anything, but could the difference in the “d” passages cause an increase of pressure somewhere, causing the water to go somewhere it shouldn’t, due to the fact it can’t flow properly?

2Blue2 · Mar 5, 2020

What a fricken PITA

Progress Thread Therapy Car-- Freshening Up the Lower Intake

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Active Member

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