Things I need to remember or do before starting car up (after H/C/I swap) tomorrow?

5spd GT · Aug 4, 2004

Is all I need to do is prime the engine...how do I know it is primed (valve covers are going to be on)...also how many times do I need to manually turn the engine over while priming?

I will get it started tomorrow once we figure out why my headers aren't lining up...I can get about 5-6 bolts threaded in on each side but I can't get the last two bolts in because it seems to be to short (AFR 165 heads by the way)...so I got a couple guys coming over tomorrow to help out...any ideas?

Went a bit off topic there...but you all got any ideas what I need to do...?...also a dumb question here but how do I know when the radiator is full...also...I'm installing a Griffin radiator and I don't have time to go get a new radiator overflow tank...what will it hurt if I don't drive with it on...???

Thanks,

David

Notched · Aug 4, 2004

hmmm.. im new at this, but a friend told me that when filling up the radiator, to spin the crank, he said if its a mech. water pump, sping the crank manually and the water level will decrease, because water is filling up in the pockets inside the motor

i think the same goes for priming it(i think for oil), crank it, he said 20-30 spins so the oil circulates in the passages......

here's a guess about the overflow, but when the coolant heats up it fills up the tank because its exapnding(i think), and without an overflow it might expand the radiator, or damage something .. not sure about the overflow. sorry

hope someone else posts to correct my post, becuase im only 70% on what i said, no positive

SORRY- GOODLUCK

Grn92LX · Aug 4, 2004

Just pull the coil and crank it a few times and listen for any ungodly noises. The start it up and check for leaks while keeping the rad cap off and filling it as needed. The rockers will tick for a few, then quiet down as they get oiled. Good luck, I know the feeling. Mac headers seem to warp and make it a pita to reinstall. Might need a crow bar to make them line up!

Notched · Aug 4, 2004

also i've seen guys use heavy duty plastic and aluminum bottles as overflow tanks, just stick a tube down in the bottle, and connect to rad. if u wanna go cheap

5spd GT · Aug 4, 2004

Grn92LX said:
Just pull the coil and crank it a few times and listen for any ungodly noises. The start it up and check for leaks while keeping the rad cap off and filling it as needed. The rockers will tick for a few, then quiet down as they get oiled. Good luck, I know the feeling. Mac headers seem to warp and make it a pita to reinstall. Might need a crow bar to make them line up!

The coil is the plug wire that goes over to the driver side close to the battery...right?

How do I know when my engine is primed up...

Yeah the headers are no fun...I've messed with them for 3-4 hours alone and can't get them to work...

Thanks for the help...

David

Grn92LX · Aug 4, 2004

I meant pull the ignition coil plug wire. You know, the wire that goes from the distributer to it. Just crank it a few times for like 3-5 seconds. No need to go crazy, chances are it might not even start up right away. probably will have to twist the dist clockwise.

when you degreed your fti cam, how close was it to being perfect at 0?

NoSloCoupes · Aug 4, 2004

If you haven't already, change the oil. After scraping gaskets, and coolant getting into the cylinders, do yourself a favor and change it before you start it up. You can prime the system the way Grn suggested, or prime it with a drill set on reverse. In doing it with turning the engine over, you still have no pressure for a few seconds while parts are moving...but if you lubed them good prior, shouldn't be a problem. In using the drill...pop out the dizzy, and use a 5/16 or 1/4 if i remember right, and put the socket on the oil pump shaft. You'll feel when you have oil pressure..there will be a load on the drill. When done, pull out #1 spark plug and rotate the engine while holding your finger over the hole and watching the balancer to bring it up on tdc on the compressoin stroke. When its stops blowing and is on 0 at the balancer you are there. Put the dizzy in at stock location..theres a mark on the base of the dizzy and the block. Doing this will help you get it started if you haven't already. Before you start the car, cycle the key on/off a few times just to be sure the rails arent' leaking when you popped them apart. Fire up, check for leaks, set timing.

In filling the rad. i like to fill it up while giving the upper hose a few squeezes to get the air bubbles out. When its topped off cold, fire up the car with the cap off and wait for the stat to open, then top off the coolant.

5spd GT · Aug 4, 2004

Grn92LX said:
I meant pull the ignition coil plug wire. You know, the wire that goes from the distributer to it. Just crank it a few times for like 3-5 seconds. No need to go crazy, chances are it might not even start up right away. probably will have to twist the dist clockwise.

when you degreed your fti cam, how close was it to being perfect at 0?

1.2* so I left it... - .560 lift on the intake makes me nervous...and I know it isn't the single factor in p-v clearance issues but is a major part of it...

Grn92LX · Aug 4, 2004

Wow, hefty cam Whats the exhaust specs? Duration? PM me if you dont want all of stangnet knowing. Should run good.

battyice · Aug 4, 2004

5spd GT said:
I'm installing a Griffin radiator and I don't have time to go get a new radiator overflow tank...what will it hurt if I don't drive with it on...???

It won't hurt anything to drive your car with no overflow tank for a few days. Your radiator cap is what controlls the pressure inside the coolant system, not whether there is an overflow tank attached.

By not running an overflow tank the only difference is that when the coolant warms up and expands it won't have a tank to run into. Fill your radiator about 1-2" from the top and your should be all set. Just make sure you have a hose attached to the port under your radiator cap and run it down the side of the radiator so that any excess antifreeze won't drip all over your engine bay when the car warms up.

Many old cars, trucks, and tractors came from the factory with no overflow tank, just an overflow hose so that in the event the engine overheated the antifreeze would get blown on the ground...not very environmentally friendly but still functional.

You should be able to pick up a used overflow tank and a j/y pretty cheap.

Ray III · Aug 4, 2004

change the oil AFTER starting the engine and letting it warm up. It does no good to change it when the contaminates haven't been flushed to the oilpan.

NoSloCoupes · Aug 4, 2004

Whats going to get flushed into the pan? Coolant, nope already got there while its sitting. Pieces of head gasket that fell into the cylinder..nope, wont' get past the rings. Oh, the pieces of head gasket that got into the coolant passages...right. The pieces of front cover gasket...nope, already in the pan(no matter how good you cover the front of the pan). Ok, coolant in the lifter valley from removing the intake...again, nope already there. No way i'm running my engine with that **** in the pan, getting sucked into the screen or the oil pump. Let alone the coolant in the oil going through my bearings. Then change it again after a few miles. Believe me, i'll be the first to admit if this way is not conventionary, but i've been doing it for years this way.

Michael Yount · Aug 4, 2004

If there's a chance signficant coolant got in the pan - change the oil before you prime/start it. Prime with a drill through the dizzy hole. You want to pump oil through the whole system before you turn it over - even with the starter. Pull at least one cover off, and turn the oil pump with the drill until oil comes up the pushrods and over all the rockers. Replace the cover, stab the dizzy and then you're ready to crank.

5spdGT - "560 lift on the intake makes me nervous...and I know it isn't the single factor in p-v clearance issues but is a major part of it..." That's incorrect - peak lift has no impact on p to v clearance. When the valves are open at peak, the pistons are well down the cylinders. P to v clearance is minimum during overlap when the intake is just opening, the exhaust is just closing, and the piston is passing through tdc at the end of the exhaust stroke and the beginning of the intake stroke. Cam timing changes that result in the intake opening earlier and/or the exhaust closing later are what reduce clearance - all else equal. What clearance did you measure? And if you didn't measure clearance - add that as something to do before you crank it. Unless you're willing to risk your $$$ mods on a guess and a prayer.

sheff2720 · Aug 4, 2004

get an oil pump primer.. you just attach it to a drill and spin the oil pump with it.. do that for like 5 minutes or so, this way no parts are moving before they are oiled.. and like what was said before change your oil soon after you get it started that way anything that is knocked loose after the first few minutes or hours of running will be flushed out.. i also put a magnet on the bottom of my oil tank so that any metal shavings would collect there, and not be recirculated through the engine.. and then just pull the magnet off when you change the oil.. and flush the coolent soon after you get everything up and running, because you just moved everything around, and probably got some things you dont want in your coolent.. hope everything turns out good tomorrow.. let us know how it goes

5spd GT · Aug 4, 2004

Grn92lx - I'll send a PM after I submit this post...

Michael - Hmm...if I remember correctly I went to look where my piston was when it hit max lift at .050 (.560 on the intake)...that the piston was almost at the very top just starting to drop ...and about checking the clearance...well I did it but I didn't...I went ahead and did it with the heads on and used a welded up old HR lifter (temporary solid) and when I took off the heads my "intake clay" was all over the place" (looks like I didn't put enough oil to keep if from sticking to things and it was just to torn up to get an accurate measurement...the "exhaust clay" was readable and was fine (no clearance issues)...and me getting frustrated and it being near the end of they day called it quits on checking the clearance and went on with the install ...Ed told me I would be " (you'll be) fine if you install everything correctly"...refering to my p to v clearance...and your right I'm basically going by a prayer...

I drained the old oil out yesterday and put in new oil for the startup and warmup...and have new oil waiting to be "installed" after I drain the oil currently in there...

I have an oil primer so I'll probably use it...I hear anywhere from 20 seconds to 5 minutes priming the engine...why does it vary so much...I might burn up the drill but oh well...

Now I just need to hope I can get the headers lined up...

Thanks,

David

jwzg · Aug 4, 2004

Michael Yount said:
Unless you're willing to risk your $$$ mods on a guess and a prayer.

Amen to Brother Yount there.

As for the oil, change the oil and filter before you prime it. After you've run it a few days, change it again. You don't want any trash in the new oil floating around or reducing the effectiveness of your filter for long. As for the coolant, fill up with straight distilled water and run it like that for a day without the thermostat until you get the bugs worked out. This will flush the block and keep the heads cool until you are sure everything is right. Then flush old stuff and put in the thermostat. Fill with a mixture of 1 gallon of antifreeze and the rest distilled water.

Make sure your injectors are seated and fuel rails bolted down (in that order)!!!

Good luck!

Michael Yount · Aug 4, 2004

5spdGT - "piston was when it hit max lift at .050 (.560 on the intake)...that the piston was almost at the very top just starting to drop"

???? Not sure what you're trying to convey - your statement makes no sense to me. The phrase 'max lift at .050' is a problem. Duration at .050" of lift is what's measured - it refers to how many degrees of crank rotation occur between the valve getting open to .050" and closing back to .050" lift. At .050" lift upon intake opening, you're correct - the piston will be near tdc. But that was the point of my post - the valve is barely open when it's near the piston. Once the intake has opened completely to peak (.560"), the piston has moved WAY down the cylinder. Unless you gave Ed drop valve measurements on your motor, Ed can't tell you how much valve to piston clearance you're gonna have.

Check out the link below - here's a way to measure without pulling the head off (and it explains the clearance issues). On the priming - pull off a valve cover - and watch to see when it's primed. You can see it coming out the top end and flowing down over the rocker/spring. You needn't guess at that either. I wouldn't crank it without checking clearance, or watching for the prime to occur. If you really want to be thorough, put a ratchet on the crank bolt, and give the motor a few rotations by hand during the priming process. http://www.diyporting.com/PVC.html

5spd GT · Aug 4, 2004

...I didn't inform you correctly...I must be tired... ...I don't know what I was typing...

About the Ed statement...I guess he has run cams VERY similar to mine in other 302's of my type and they had no problems...

92GreenGT · Aug 4, 2004

Good info in this thread. Ill throw in my advise on the overflow bottle. For quite some time I used a piece of hose that went to my stock overflow and a 20 oz bottle. Put the cap on and put a slit in it and pushed the hose through it. Worked like a charm, now what I done was went to advance and bought this overflow kit that cost $4.49 and used it. I can take pics if you want, send me a PM if you want em man. Good Luck buddy.

Dave

Michael Yount · Aug 5, 2004

5spdGT - no problem - happens to all of us sometimes. Each engine combo is unique when it comes to tight tolerances. Two engines with the exact same bolt ons - one can have enough clearance and one can be short of clearance. Unless you measure, you're taking a chance - there's no way around it. It may come out fine - but the point is you won't really know if you have enough clearance until you've missed a shift and floated the valves good once -- if you come out of that ok, then you'll know you were ok. Seems a big risk to take when all measuring requires is a little patience with the assembly/start up process. Hate to see you bend anything on start up. Good luck with whatever you decide.

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