Things I need to remember or do before starting car up (after H/C/I swap) tomorrow?

Jo_885o · Aug 5, 2004

So say for instance u dont have enough clearence what do u do then? B/c i have to do the p/v clearence shuffle as well. Hoping for sucess on the first time. Seeing as though I have flycut tw option pistons in my dss block. And also just molding clcay will work? Where do i get some from? (Hardware, Auto parts) Not to steal his thread.

nmcgrawj · Aug 5, 2004

Jo,

I talked to a trickflow tech about the stage 2 cam and he said that i shouldnt have p-v issues with stock pistons but if i do then i can retard it a couple degrees. Though im not sure how retarding affects the low end of a 302, the 351 has enough to cover its a$$.

But im guessing you can get a thicker head gasket, retard the cam, or just pray ahead of time you dont need to worry about it!

Jo_885o · Aug 5, 2004

o aight good look. I figured that but wanted to make sure, b/c i'm advancing the cam *4 degrees. Can we say torque!

nmcgrawj · Aug 5, 2004

You know someone who has done that? How will that act with the upper rpm's?

Jo_885o · Aug 5, 2004

Shouldnt be a problem. my timing chain only has 3 key ways so i'm advancing for the low end not so much worried about the top b/c its a street car, not drag. Retarding a cam usually loses low end torque and opting for more hp's in the upper r's, but advancing gives low end grunt and loses some upper hp's, doesnt matter light to loght is what i'm concerned with. If i want high hp i'll get a 4v. lol

jwzg · Aug 5, 2004

Jo_885o said:
o aight good look. I figured that but wanted to make sure, b/c i'm advancing the cam *4 degrees. Can we say torque!

Have you taken valve events? If not, I'd suggest you do a search on the forums for some posts regarding advancing the cam by Buddy Rawls and a guy named Tmoss. Without knowing when things are happening, you may just be hurting your powerband. Every combo is different, so what works for one combo may not work for another. I think we all agree that doing the "p-v clearance shuffle" as you call it, is not the ideal way to avoid smacking a valve, but knowing what effect if any advancing or retarding the cam will have on your combo before you do it beats the hell out of the SWAG method.

Michael Yount · Aug 5, 2004

The results of advancing or retarding the cam installation from straight up can really only be determined by trying it and then comparing to the dot to dot installation. There are some general rules of thumb around advance helping the bottom and retarding helping the top, but that's simply not always the case. For a cam that's a really good match to the rest of the set up, hp/torque can be lost throught the rev range when advancing or retarding. So I wouldn't run too far with the 'advance to help bottom' theory.

If you read further up the thread there's an explanation (by moi) of what happens to clearance when you advance or retard the cam. You don't want to use a thicker head gasket to get more clearance - it ruins the quench and can lead to severe detonation. If you don't have the clearance you need (.080" intake/.100" exhaust minimums for engines like ours seeing less than 6500 rpm) you can either change the cam (later opening intake, earlier closing exhaust timing), cut (deeper) reliefs in the pistons, or put new pistons in. If you're really close (within .005" - .010"), you might get by with shifting the cam timing the appropriate way, or a change in rocker ratio. But those will only provide you a very small amount of relief. Notching or replacing pistons is probably the correct solution if you want to keep the cam.

nmcgrawj · Aug 5, 2004

Can notching be done by us at home? Or do we have to break the block back down and take it to a machine shop?

Jo_885o · Aug 5, 2004

okay, i can be wrong geez. Thats just what i read in a book one day, but i know every combo is different so i will get a dyno and play around with cam timing and engine timing, so i will try all 3, retard, straight and advance.

nmcgrawj · Aug 5, 2004

isn't that quite a lot of work Jo? I say you find a book or magazone that already did it.

Jo_885o · Aug 5, 2004

It might be, but hey its worth it.

nmcgrawj · Aug 5, 2004

Yea i want to see you break the front of your engine down 3 or 4 times and get it dynoed after each time just to see if you can gain a couple hp's or ft/lbs.

Read up on it in books and make a choice.....unless you really do have that much time and money on your hands.

Jo_885o · Aug 5, 2004

Not now... hell naw. im putting dat cam in and thats it until school is done. u now how much a dyno tune costs at livernois.

5spd GT · Aug 5, 2004

Well guys I got some good news and some bad news...bad news first...

I have a leak in the lower intake...the lower intake gasket must have slipped out of place just slightly and caused a leak when we went to fill the 50/50 mixture in the radiator...

Good news...we got the headers on ...and tomorrow we are going to basically going to do a upper/lower intake install ...but it should be fine...

nmcgrawj · Aug 5, 2004

that sucks man, good luck with it!

jo, actually i dont, how much do they charge?

Jo_885o · Aug 5, 2004

6??.00

nmcgrawj · Aug 5, 2004

hell no, tweecer all day. I dont care if i gotta read up on it all night.

Jo_885o · Aug 5, 2004

dont quote me though. That was for devin's car .

nmcgrawj · Aug 5, 2004

He got his car tuned? For what?

Michael Yount · Aug 5, 2004

Notching can be done at home, but it's a bit of pain especially if the engine's in the car. Isky (perhaps others) makes a tool (cutter) that get's inserted through the valve guide and is rotated with a drill. It will notch the piston at the same angle the valve will make. The valve springs/valves have to come out, and the head has to come off, tool inserted, head bolted back on for each valve (16 times). Perhaps more than that as you may have to measure to check your progress. And then there's getting the cuttings out of the cylinder bore. I wouldn't do it to mine - but many have used it. Sometimes it's a simple matter of using a Dremel or carbide cutter on a drill to open up the existing reliefs in stock pistons.

I doubt advancing/retarding the cam is gonna pick you up much on either end. It's useful in racing classes with tightly controlled rules where every HP counts, but in most of our cars - not worth the trouble of changing it and checking on a dyno.

Things I need to remember or do before starting car up (after H/C/I swap) tomorrow?

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