Thinking about getting some stage 2-2.5 heads and cams..

[SilverBullet00]

Well I beleive I have a problem somewhere in my valvetrain so Im thinking I might just replace the heads and cams to fix the problem! Im thinking about getting some stage 2's but I dont know from where yet. I have contacted MPH and livernois motorsports so far.. Im trying to get ahold of foxlake still to see what they can do... Does anyone have any suggestions? I know MPH's heads are 2.5's but how do those compare to the others? Is there any surprises I need to know about as far as the installation goes? Unfortunetly I would have to do a mail tune since there is no one around here to dyno tune it for me....

I really want to get all the facts that I can before I make my purchase. Does anyone know what kind of power I would be making with the heads and cams? I found an old MM and FF where they used the foxlake heads and stage 2 cams and they dyno'd at 244RWHP (base was 217) Seems like way too much for 30 HP....

Any articles online anywhere about this???

Thanks guys!

ALSO I want this to remain a daily driver, would a swap like this be to much for a DD?? How would gas mileage be effected?

 

[crazynorwegian]

one guy on here recently got 310rwhp with 2.5 heads and vt stage 1 cams. with stage 2's and your current mods, you should be looking at over 320rwhp

 

[SilverBullet00]

Come on, anyone else?

 

[ADRENLN]

well, i hear the big 330 number once in a while just because a couple of guys reach this doesnt mean you will. i think 300 hp is very hard to hit. i have almost every bolt on and im getting dyno tuned right now for new numbers with l/t.

last i heard, i was gaining 11rwhp from my t/l which would put me at 286rwhp. this is also a bit low cause i have blower cams. if i had na cams id prolly have 296rwhp. nothing to complain about. overall im very happy, i will know my exact numbers tomarrow.

now what you really want! i gained 35 rwhp and 20 rwtq peak with my fox stage2 heads and stage 1 blower cams.

 

[DropTopPony]

Well I beleive I have a problem somewhere in my valvetrain so Im thinking I might just replace the heads and cams to fix the problem! Im thinking about getting some stage 2's but I dont know from where yet. I have contacted MPH and livernois motorsports so far.. Im trying to get ahold of foxlake still to see what they can do... Does anyone have any suggestions? I know MPH's heads are 2.5's but how do those compare to the others? Is there any surprises I need to know about as far as the installation goes? Unfortunetly I would have to do a mail tune since there is no one around here to dyno tune it for me....

I really want to get all the facts that I can before I make my purchase. Does anyone know what kind of power I would be making with the heads and cams? I found an old MM and FF where they used the foxlake heads and stage 2 cams and they dyno'd at 244RWHP (base was 217) Seems like way too much for 30 HP....

Any articles online anywhere about this???

Thanks guys!

ALSO I want this to remain a daily driver, would a swap like this be to much for a DD?? How would gas mileage be effected?

don't expect miracles from ported heads/cams. You have to have the rest of the supporting cast to make the NA HP #'s. free flowing exhaust/intake tract etc. Those companies you mentioned are great..also look up VT engines and Steen Racing. I hear Tim at MPH is dead on with his mail order tunes if thats the route your going.

 

[Drag_on]

Well, I just exploded my motor Monday (most likely sucked a valve) and will be doing the same thing as you. The guy I talked to at VTengines.com claimed they saw 310rwhp with their stage 1 cams in ported heads (most likely their stage II heads that flow like 225/200) with a nice forged rotating assembly running 10.5:1 compression. I believe stock is 9.6:1. He said the stage II in same package above should show only 285. THis is a big difference, so decide now whether or not you'll charge/turbo/nos it later. He also said they dynoed 330 or 336 with the new P-51 intake from Fox Lake.

For better reference, check out the rwhp #'s on the guys posting under Bill's 12 second N/A posting on modulardepot.com.

http://forums.modulardepot.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1877

Many of them are over 300rwhp with head work and a few bolt-ons. Even those under 300 hp are still running low 12's, so you can see how to get there. To answer your question, I think it is possible. If you'd like, you can wait about 3 weeks, pay for my dyno, and I will tell you exactly what I get at the rear with my only other addition being welded in magna flows.

You should also check out the longblocks at www.seanhylandmotorsports.com. They have one with the same setup (nice head job and forged rotating assembly) which they advertise at 400hp. They send all their engines out with Dyno sheets so this is probably a reliable number. I don't know what 400 crank hp converts to, but it should be well over 300. These engines are probably extensively blueprinted which some will tell you can add up to 40rwhp.

I also recently found some very comparable heads at www.patriot-performance.com that are $1495.00 WITH NO CORE CHARGE. THe stage III job flows 226/201. You can also get a stage II flowing 218/193 for 1295.00. THeir add in a mag showed very good quality parts down to the titanium retainers. This is the best bang for the buck at a price $200 less than vtengines.com. Currently, this is my choice.

http://sites.reachtheworld.tv/waterNew/default.asp?T=505244&DID=1225

SHM has the rotating assembly for $1495.00, or a stroked version for $1995.00 if you'd like to get to 5.0 liter. There are also kits that will get you to 5.1 liter, but I've seen them as high as $3495.00.

I'll most likely get the SHM rotating assembly and Patriot heads. I should be out the door under $3600 w/ the machine work. I plan on seeing 75-90rwhp. Another idea is 9:1 compression, stage II heads and adding a $1300 100 wet shot. I could also throw in a 3200.

 

[DropTopPony]

Well, I just exploded my motor Monday (most likely sucked a valve) and will be doing the same thing as you. The guy I talked to at VTengines.com claimed they saw 310rwhp with their stage 1 cams in ported heads (most likely their stage II heads that flow like 225/200) with a nice forged rotating assembly running 10.5:1 compression. I believe stock is 9.6:1. He said the stage II in same package above should show only 285. THis is a big difference, so decide now whether or not you'll charge/turbo/nos it later. He also said they dynoed 330 or 336 with the new P-51 intake from Fox Lake.

For better reference, check out the rwhp #'s on the guys posting under Bill's 12 second N/A posting on modulardepot.com.

http://forums.modulardepot.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1877

Many of them are over 300rwhp with head work and a few bolt-ons. Even those under 300 hp are still running low 12's, so you can see how to get there. To answer your question, I think it is possible. If you'd like, you can wait about 3 weeks, pay for my dyno, and I will tell you exactly what I get at the rear with my only other addition being welded in magna flows.

You should also check out the longblocks at www.seanhylandmotorsports.com. They have one with the same setup (nice head job and forged rotating assembly) which they advertise at 400hp. They send all their engines out with Dyno sheets so this is probably a reliable number. I don't know what 400 crank hp converts to, but it should be well over 300. These engines are probably extensively blueprinted which some will tell you can add up to 40rwhp.

I also recently found some very comparable heads at www.patriot-performance.com that are $1495.00 WITH NO CORE CHARGE. THe stage III job flows 226/201. You can also get a stage II flowing 218/193 for 1295.00. THeir add in a mag showed very good quality parts down to the titanium retainers. This is the best bang for the buck at a price $200 less than vtengines.com. Currently, this is my choice.

http://sites.reachtheworld.tv/waterNew/default.asp?T=505244&DID=1225

SHM has the rotating assembly for $1495.00, or a stroked version for $1995.00 if you'd like to get to 5.0 liter. There are also kits that will get you to 5.1 liter, but I've seen them as high as $3495.00.

I'll most likely get the SHM rotating assembly and Patriot heads. I should be out the door under $3600 w/ the machine work. I plan on seeing 75-90rwhp. Another idea is 9:1 compression, stage II heads and adding a $1300 100 wet shot. I could also throw in a 3200.

hey go and do some searches on Patriot heads before you order. Many unhappy campers. Go to mod depot and there is a thread going on the corral right now.

 

[SilverBullet00]

Yup, I have heard many bad things about patriot heads. I have also heard a couple of bad stories about SHM lately.

Anyways, I want to see if spending the extra money on ported heads is really worth it. I would really like to be running 12's... if not, I will probably still do the stage 2 cams...

 

[03MGT]

I was looking at the 400hp SOHC 4.6 from www.seanhylandmotorsports.com Are those plug and play or is it alot of money to do the engine swap???

 

[SilverBullet00]

I was looking at the 400hp SOHC 4.6 from www.seanhylandmotorsports.com Are those plug and play or is it alot of money to do the engine swap???

$11,000 is way too much for 400 hp, which looks like its measured at the fly... even if it was 400 rwhp its excessive.

 

[natronathon]

yeah, dude just do stage 2 heads, and a n/a cam, and the p51 intake, and we'll get ur b1tch in the 12's. Personally, if ur gonna drop in a crate motor, and you don't use the opportunity to get yourself a nice navigator doch 5.4, ill hit you!

And yeah 11,000 is an insane amount to pay for 400 hp. WAY TOO MUCH. I think with 11,000 i would be at 400 rwhp and have a fully built drive train... hmmm.... maybe you should come to the light side..... hmmm....

 

[03MGT]

Im an idiot lol I was looking at the price for the egine above it. Ya i was thinking I want a 12 N/A car. I was thinking stage 2 heads, stage 1 vt cams, and p51 intake. Its gonna be my daily driver thats why I want the stage 1 cams.

 

[Drag_on]

yeah, dude just do stage 2 heads, and a n/a cam, and the p51 intake, and we'll get ur b1tch in the 12's. Personally, if ur gonna drop in a crate motor, and you don't use the opportunity to get yourself a nice navigator doch 5.4, ill hit you!

And yeah 11,000 is an insane amount to pay for 400 hp. WAY TOO MUCH. I think with 11,000 i would be at 400 rwhp and have a fully built drive train... hmmm.... maybe you should come to the light side..... hmmm....

Forget the intake. $1300 minimum for 12rwhp on stock and 20 to 25 on built isn't worth it i.m.o. Spend that $1300 on nos and have some real power. The only downside to this arguement is you may get 330 w/ the intake but only 285 w/ the nos setup until you hit the fun button. I say sacrifice 45 hp daily for 100 when you get a wild hair.

I'm about 99.9 % sure that engine is 400fwhp. They can't really give you a dyno for rwhp. And yeah, it is way too much doe. I just used it as a good example of what you can do to these tiny engines. Also, what is the bad news on SHM? Anything on the rotating assemblies? They use manley for the pistons and rods, Federal Mogul Bearings, and Cleavite rod bearings, so I see no problems there. They don't say who makes the forged crank, and it comes with there own piston rings. Any problems there???

Thanks for the heads up on Patriot. They have been around a while, so I figured they could produce a good set of heads. Their parts are all quality too. I planned on reading into them and you've made it easier.

Anyone else for heads or rotating assembly?

One last comment, I see everyone buying into one or two people's advice on here. I personally don't know anyone, so I could be simply taking advice from the #1 salesperson at SHM or where ever. It is easy to hype something up or down in an internet forum. It seems like once a product catches on, it is the automatic choice and everything else is no competition. There are plenty of qualified engine builders out there and VT isn't the only one with a good set of heads. Just a thought.