Thinking of going turbo on a stroker motor...

MrBobMarley · Feb 7, 2004

Well, my old 289 is easily on it's deathbed, and I have some decisions to make.

1. Rebuild to stock......ehhh......no.

2. Rebuild to the tune of a CHP 347 stroker (EFI or carb).

3. Replace it with a stock 5.0 with EFI and add basic bolt on stuff.

4. Replace it with a 347 stroker and go turbo (and I have the ability/time to do this).

5. Rebuild the 289 with stronger intenals and just turbo that (EFI or carb).

6. Replace it with a built 5.0 (non stroker) and turbo that.

And I know for sure I want nothing to do with superchargers. Please any, ideas/suggestions are welcome.

I'll be doing all the work myself with my buddy, including fabbing the turbo setup, if that's what I choose. Whatever I end up doing, I'll be glad to document with tons of pics/videos for anyone interested.

Right now I'm leaning toward the standard 347 w/o turbo, Option 2. What I need is more info on these engines from people that know more about them than me. Would you consider boosting it, or leave it n/a and why? Thanks in advance.

-- Ameer.

R100RT · Feb 7, 2004

The early Mustangs present a real challange for the home builder wanting a twin turbo. Unless your a great fabricator, pass on the turbos.

rbohm · Feb 8, 2004

turbo's can be a real challenge to fab up. i would build a 331 stroker instead of the 347, that way you can pack in a longer rod and maintain piston stability.

MrBobMarley · Feb 8, 2004

I've done some research about that issue with the 347's. Apparently Coast High Perf has tweaked their 347, regarding the rod length I believe. But I do hear the 331 is the way to go to be on the safe side.

But I have searched for posts, and it looks like 2bav8 and gp001's 347 blocks are holding up. Anyone wanna chime in on the pros and cons of the 347 and 331?

And about the turbo? I'm not gonna say it's easy until it's done lol. But I do have a lot of confidence in my (and my buddy's) ability to work hands on, I really dont like paying people to work on my stuff. I think it should be a fun project, something different, and a great learning experience.

rbohm · Feb 8, 2004

the older 347 combinations were beastly. they used oil, rattled, and didnt last as long as shorter stroke engines. these days many use shorter rods, better rings, tighter clearances, and are generally pretty good. that said however, i prefer the 331 stroker, as the rod/stroke ratio is better, they make nearly the same power, and the pistons are more stable in their bores. if you really want to go nuts, build a 363 stroker on a 302 block like rousch did for the 79 mustang pace car. a cut down 351c crank and a .060" overbore. i doubt the engine would last 100K miles, but would be one heck of a performer on the street. as for a turbo, you can build a good system, but if this is a street motor i would go with a paxton or vortech blower instead.

MrBobMarley · Feb 8, 2004

as for a turbo, you can build a good system, but if this is a street motor i would go with a paxton or vortech blower instead.

Could I ask why you prefer that for the street? It's my experience that a turbo car is your same old N/A car you started with (gas mileage and engine life) until you put your foot in it. The blower doesnt care what position the throttle is at, that's one of the biggest turn offs to me.

67coupe351w · Feb 8, 2004

I vote for twin turbo on any of those options

I wanna see lots of pics of how you ended up running you tubes too for future refrence

rollin68 · Feb 9, 2004

If you want power the simplest, go with the stroker. If you want somehting different and you have the patience, go for the turbo. Keep in mind if you are using a stock 2-bolt block, you can crack the block with the turbo and only 289 cubes, so unless you have a R302, dart or even mexican block, just stick with 289, or find a decent 87-92 302(came with forged pistons) and play with that. Good luck on what you decide to do, but keep in mind that unless you get rid of yer shock towers you will be cramped for space in yer 65. Im trying to turbo my 68 and ill barely fit shorties facing forward. R100RT could only fit the stock manifolds on his and he has the same room you do. So if you really want to turbo yer car, go for it, but be prepared for a challenge

MrBobMarley · Feb 9, 2004

Good point on the 2 bolt block, I was wondering how strong they would be. Apparently not very. And thanks, I love a good challenge!

I vote for twin turbo on any of those options

Wouldn't that be sweet, but I think if turbo is the plan, it'll be single for me.
Also, I'm heading out this morning before work to look for a 89-92 EFI block w/t5.

Here's the deal. I'm 19 and heading back to college in the fall. Until then I',m working like a dog and saving every penny I make. Now, I know I can install a late model r302 and trans before then, but I'm not sure about the turbo setup. I know for sure I will be going stroker, no doubt about that but it wont be on the 289. I'm gonna retire the ol boy and store him away.

Now the r302 I'm looking at, If I have to drive just that, no stroker for a while, I'm cool with that. I can be happy with the 5 speed alone (for a while ). School is a priority to me. However if I have the means to stroke it (and possibly turbo) before August, it'll be done. And I guarantee tons of pics, I know how helpful they are. I have a feeling I'll be the one needing help though lol.

classic boost · Feb 9, 2004

rollin68 said:
Im trying to turbo my 68 and ill barely fit shorties facing forward.

302? since i'm using a 351w, i have to fab up my own headers for my turbo project.

slapper · Feb 9, 2004

MrBobMarley said:
Could I ask why you prefer that for the street? It's my experience that a turbo car is your same old N/A car you started with (gas mileage and engine life) until you put your foot in it. The blower doesnt care what position the throttle is at, that's one of the biggest turn offs to me.

Generally, either power adder will not boost the induction charge above atmosheric pressure until the RPM is accelerating,(with the exception of flat out throttle settings,--exceptions of course with wastegate positioning and many Roots positive displacement blowers).
I guess I really don't understand your statement.
My 393 stroker with centrifugal supercharger acts as "the same old N/A car", until I put my foot in it. The blower is very dependant on throttle settings.
With the Tremec and 3:73 gears, I get about 13-15 MPG generally driving around pulling about 17" vacuum until I put my foot in it.
As far as engine life--as always, it's primarily determined by driving habits and service intervals. Be aware that power adders will shorten bearing life as they will be subjected to much higher pressures and loads.
As someone mentioned earlier, I also prefer superchargers on the street, and the 331 seems to be a better candidate than the 347 as far as reliability.
I've had MUCH better luck tuning S/C over turbochargers, but all have been blow-through other than 2 .

MrBobMarley · Feb 9, 2004

Wow, a blown 393 stroker, sounds like quite a beast you got there

As far as engine life--as always, it's primarily determined by driving habits and service intervals. Be aware that power adders will shorten bearing life as they will be subjected to much higher pressures and loads.

Excellent point.

Generally, either power adder will not boost the induction charge above atmosheric pressure until the RPM is accelerating,(with the exception of flat out throttle settings,--exceptions of course with wastegate positioning and many Roots positive displacement blowers).

Another good point, I remember reading about that somewhere. I definitely need to do more research on blowers, but the power loss via the belt drive has always discouraged me from going blower. Of course that isn't to say I dont admire them. I'd kill for a kb 2003 cobra

What do you think about this article. The guy comments on the blower vs turbo topic. Twin Turbo 66 Stang

rollin68 · Feb 9, 2004

paul302 said:
302? since i'm using a 351w, i have to fab up my own headers for my turbo project.

Yah 302, but i didnt try every combination, so there still could be one that fits a 351. If not, customs turbo headers look cooler anywaise

slapper · Feb 9, 2004

MrBobMarley said:
What do you think about this article. The guy comments on the blower vs turbo topic.

I like it. Good article.
I agree with all his 4 reasons.
But his reason 3 is biased- @ 3K RPM you really don't want to be into the boost, but it's good to have 500 ft lbs @ 3000(my dyno showed only 488 ft lbs rear wheel @ 3000 RPM)
Reason 4 is also biased. It does not address the lag present in turbocharger systems.

LMan · Feb 9, 2004

seen this? www.toohighpsi.com

Lswhat · Feb 9, 2004

stick with the 289 block its stronger. 331 is a better street motor 347 a better race motor u decide.

MrBobMarley · Feb 10, 2004

stick with the 289 block its stronger.

Could you clarify a bit more? I want to learn all about these blocks, their strengths and weak spots, everything. I mean I do have one, I really should know more than I do about it lol.

But his reason 3 is biased- @ 3K RPM you really don't want to be into the boost, but it's good to have 500 ft lbs @ 3000(my dyno showed only 488 ft lbs rear wheel @ 3000 RPM)
Reason 4 is also biased. It does not address the lag present in turbocharger systems.

Good points man.

If not, customs turbo headers look cooler anywaise

Oh yes they do .

MrBobMarley · Feb 10, 2004

LMan said:
seen this? www.toohighpsi.com

Wow, nice site there. Thanks for linking that one.

rollin68 · Feb 11, 2004

Lswhat said:
stick with the 289 block its stronger.

He is refering to early model 60s/70s block vs. late model 80s/90s. The are alittle stronger, but noting to major. Just out of curiosty, how much power are you shooting at making. I would set a power goal, and use that to maybe help you decide

MrBobMarley · Feb 11, 2004

Out of the stroker (if I do that), I'm looking for 350-400 at the wheels, and a will be a street car for spirited driving. I'd settle for anything over 300 actually, as long as the tq was impressive.

Out of the turbo (if I do that), I'd like to have a block that could handle 550, 650 max. I really doubt I want more than that, If I did, I'd build a strip only car.

What block you you suggest starting from?

Thinking of going turbo on a stroker motor...

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