TMI seat foam install in a '67 ???

I'm now ready to replace the OEM upholstery with TMI's sport seat product ..... as usual, 67's seem to be always just a little different .... the OEM seat foam was anchored to the frame with the hog rings that anchored the upholstery listing wires along the sides and front of the seat insert .... however, 67 OEM seat foams did not have embedded listing rods .... TMI seat foam has embedded listing rods in those (listing rod pocket) slots .... it's obvious that the new upholstry gets hog ringed to those embedded rods, but does one first hog ring the seat foam to the frame using those embedded rods and the original listing hold-down wires hog ringed to the frame/springs ?? .... I can't find a decent install description anywhere including TMI's web site ("coming soon") .... please help the poor boy -- TIA, 67GTFB

figures .... I just now finally got a TMI rep on the 'phone and confirmed that the seat foam is indeed first hog ringed to the frame/springs (attached to the original listing hold-downs) and then the upholstery is hog ringed to the embedded listing rods .... that all makes perfect sense, but I wanted to confirm all of this ..... on a 67 anchoring the TMI foams isn't going to be the easiest job .... any suggestions in any of this before I get to a point of no return ??? -- thanks again -- 67GTFB

OK, sounds like a good idea as this knowledge is worth sharing .... from what I know, 68 OEM seat foam had embedded listing rods, so when you tear yours down, how this was done will be readily apparent .... CJ Pony's site has a "tech articles" page (link at bottom of their home page) that has a general description of how to do classic upholstery install .... that article does describe some of the variations among the years which I found to be helpful .... for the 67 -- I have noted that the TMI sport seat foam front (traverse) listing location is not exactly identical to the OEM .... the TMI seat foam embedded listing rod appears to be set back (towards the rear) about 1 inch from where the OEM listing hold-down rod is located .... what I did was place the foam on the frame and stuck an awl through the foam next to the embedded rod .... the awl came out about an inch rearward from wher the OEM listing hod-down is located ..... I tried to attach the embedded rod to the springs -- but a swing and a miss ..... so I will next get some 1/8" steel rod and fashion another listing hold-down that will be located under the TMI front listing pocket and hog ringed to the springs .... I know, a picture is worth a thousand words .... so I'll snap a few pics as I go along ... will try to do this new hold-down thing todayafter a trip to a h/w store ..... more on this later ..... btw, I already did the entire rear seat .... turned out OK (not perfect, but good enough for me) ..... purchased replacement foam, but that turned out to be a major waste .... many issues with size and shape (but the quality looked to be fine) ..... so I ended up re-using the OEM foam (which was in surprisingly good shape) ...... the real hard part of the rear seat is getting the tunnel cover and lower back of the seat attached .... once past that, the rest went pretty smoothly .... the rear seat back was pretty much straight forward ..... more to follow ....

EDIT -- checked the backset of the TMI upholstery front listing pocket and it's a good 2 inches towards the back of the seat compared to the OEM location ..... also, noticed that the thickness of the TMI seat pad itself is thinner than the OEM seat pad .... hope that doesn't make the TMI seat less comfortable .... I'll be really pizzed if it's not as comfy as before (for what that's worth) .... time (and $$$) will tell .... so that's how TMI gets a higher side bolster -- the center section thickness is reduced ....

I will check with the shop manual -- good idea .... agree with what 2+2GT states EXCEPT for 67 front seats -- the foam has no embedded listing wire .... so when done by factory supplier, the upholstery was hog ringed through the foam and to the paper covered rods attached to the springs .... but other years that had the embedded lists in the foam were ringed to the seat lsits first .... fwiw, I'm taking pics of the TMI seat foam install in case anyone would find this of interest (perhaps as does jcode68) .... I'm in the midsts of ringing down the seat upholstery to the internal lists having accomplished the ringing down of the foam ....

TMIproducts -- thanks for the comments/info and interest ..... although similar, there are not so subtle differences for a '67 install .... the main "issue" to date that I have found (and this is not a quality issue as the product is, well, excellent !) is that the sport seat kit for the fronts have a slightly narrower center section .... this requires one to either move the exisiting listing rods (paper covered) in-board a half-inch on both sides, or (as I did) add new listing "rods" parallel to the exisiting ones half-an inch in-board on each side ..... when I did that, the listings embedded in the foam were (almost) exactly right over the new seat listings I installed ..... the other dimension that is changed is the front (thigh?) bolster .... the TMI front listing is about 1 1/2" towards the rear as compared to the OEM .... here again, I installed a new listing "rod" that is abot 3/4" back on the spring loops (wait for the pictures) .... this is NOT a quality or design issue as the sport seats are not intended to be OEM replacements -- so one should expect that there will be alterations needed to install the sport seat kit .... my purpose here is to inform those that care to read about this about these variations ahead of time and to also see what some poor slob had to do to do to perform the install .... I keep promising pictures and I will post them soonest .... actaully did finish the foam install AND have the seat cover mostly installed (did the insert listings yesterday and hope to do the outer sides later today) ..... all went pretty well for an amateur and looks like it will turn out very nice ... and the "look" of the sport seat is great IMHO .... because of the dimension differences noted, you will also have to alter the listing wire lengths and/or fab your own (what I did, out of coat hangers -- .081" diam -- not the cheesy kind from dry cleaners typically) .... the new seat rods were made from 1/8" diam mild steel rod ..... ah, forgot about this .... after installing the front (transverse) upholstery listing to the seat foam listing, I noted that the center seat foam was about 1/2" below the height of the pocket (picture would help here) ..... so I added a 1/2" thick filler piece and that really fixed that minor issue .... guess this is all stuff that pro shops run into all the time and just "do" as a matter of course ..... more later .....

OK, as promised if not somewhat tardy, are a series of pics of this TMI upholstery install .... here goes

first picture is of the new TMI seat foam that clearly shows the embedded listing "rod" in the three listing pockets and of the original OEM foam (red glue patch and all) .... the front of each seat foam is at the bottom of the picture .... the thing to note here is the lack of embedded lists in the '67 OEM foam and the different size and shape of the TMI sport seat foam ..... as noted in previous posts, the center section of the TMI seat is about 1" narrower than the OEM .... also, note how much more then transverse pocket (front one) sits towrds the back than the OEM ..... all of that means the OEM location of the lists installed to the seat springs (serpentine "loops") will have to be adjusted in order to accept the TMI foam properly ....

here's is the seat frame with the original burlap, etc. still intact .... the OEM list rods (paper covered) are highlighted with a red marker pen ....

this picture shows the seat frame with new listing rods installed to accommodate the location of the front (transverse) and side listings embedded in the TMI seat foam .... the transverse rod is located about 1 1/2" towards the rear and the sides are each inboard about 1/2" ..... I used 1/8" steel rod to fab these new rods ..... of note, there section of the OEM side lists that go up from the seat to the front edge follow a slope that provides the thigh bolster .... I moved the locations of those two sections for each side inboard a 1/2" so as to align with the newly installed rods on the seat springs .... yes, you could relocate the entire OEM listing rod on each side instead of adding new rods ... perhaps I'll try that on the other seat .... but this approach works .... sure enough, there is variation in the location of the lists across the years .... the point in all of this is to show that you need to check where the new foam lists need to be secured and what it may take to provide those new anchor points ....

what I did here was to mark the back side of the seat foam to mark the locations of where the embedded lists are exposed on the top-side (see first pic in series) .... these "windows" were then cut out to allow me to see through the hole to aid in ringing the embedded list to the attaching rod on the seat (see second pic) .... I picked up on this tip from an article I found on the web someplace .... and I found this really helped in getting this to work more easily ....

next the foam was hog ringed to the seat frame by ringing the embedded rods to the newly installed seat lists -- one ring in each "window" .... picture shows the entire foam anchored to the frame .... if the seat lists have been properly located, the foam lists should be located more or less right above the seat lists .... then all that is required is to push down on the foam rods to ensure the seat rod is engaged when crimping the ring ..... simetimes easier said than done ....

before installing the upholstery, I found it to useful to mark the center of the traverse list pocket (outer edge) as well as the center of seat foam list pocket (front edge all the way down to the bottom of the pocket (or slot or whatever its called) .... this way you can have a reference line to come to when doing that first, all important, ring -- get it centered .... for the TMI upholstery you will have to cut the ens of the traverse pocket loose as it is sewn down with the side pockets ..... cut that about 1/4" (no more) from the outer edge just up to the seam line on the seat ....

the rest of the story is where "magic" happens and I only have pics of the final results ...... but once you get the first list anchored down, the rest of it should just be a matter of attaching the outer side lists (while ensuring that the corded edges come right to the corner of the foam), then pull the front panel and corners down, followed by the rear corners .... then pull the sides and from down and around the seat bottom frame rails being careful not to rip anything .... I found I had to fab new listings for the outer panels as the OEM lists were either too long or short for use in the TMI list pockets ..... this is where you have to play and tweak and tug and smooth until it all comes out the way you want it to .... I didn't cut holes for the pivots for the seat back until time to ring down the sides -- the fabric stretched nicely over the two pivot rods and didn't poke through .... I started at the front center, finished the center (working towards the outer edge .... then worked both sides starting at the front and working towards the rear ..... then finished up with the rear .... the TMI upholstery did not have a listing wire pocket for the rear panel .... I decided to use a wire there and made an 8" long wire and poked it through the inner sleeve (like what they do when drawing blood), the worked the wire down the sleeve and centered it along the back edge ... I like this better as it takes the stress off of the individual rings attached to the spring loops at the back .... finally added the back rest stop "plate" .... what's left are the slides and adjusters, but those are mundane and not covered here ..... I know this seems like a lot detail for such a small amount work -- but I found that the devil is in the detail ...

anyway, here's a couple of pics of the finished product ... not perfect, but good enough for my purposes .... OBTW, I tested the seat and it IS definitely an improvement over the old OEM stuff ... and is "comfy" to me .... good luck with your projects .... I may post an update when I do the back rest, but will probably spare everyone with all of the bloody details .... cheers -- 67GTFB ...

quick correction .... I actually ringed down the entire side panels before relieving the pivot rod holes ....

jcode68 -- thanks for the compliments and interest in this saga .... I just looked at the TMI web page ( http://www.tmiproducts.com/mustang/browse-by-category/sport-seats.html ) and they call it the 68-69 low-back bucket, so they don't offer a true '69 product (believe the '67 and '68 are more closely related, but I could be wrong on that) ..... perhaps TMIproducts will weigh in here .... I'm adding the deluxe head rests too and I'm looking forward to that improvement in looks as well as function .... I think part of your decision has to be driven by the seat frames you have .... if you have '68 frames, it would be easier to go with the 68/69 low-back buckets with deluxe head rests to maintain much of the original look and feel .... but this is purely a personal choice ..... I went with the sport seat to give me a slightly more modern look without going to far into the customized arena and I went with the sierra grain fabric (OEM-like) instead of carbon fiber .... kind of nostalgic .... bottom-line -- I'm pleased with this product and look forward to getting the back rest completed -- then eventually do the same with the driver's side .... let us know how your decision process shakes out .... isn't this fun !! ....