Top Loader 4sp doesn't like 3rd down to 2nd

[runawayabc123]

I have a 4 speed top loader (HEH-BT, close ratio?) transmission with a Hurst shifter. ('65 289, some Holley 4brl and some 9in diff > 3.0)

When we first got it, it was nearly impossible to shift into first gear. After a lot of linkage adjustments and adding 1.5 quarts of oil (it was low and leaks a little), shifting has become what it is now. (I think adding the oil did the most.)

Most of the time you can shift into 1st (and if you can't, shifting back into 2nd and then to 1st, lets you shift ok). After that, everything shifts happy until you try to down shift from 3rd to 2nd. If you double clutch the shift and give it some gas, it than shifts into 2nd. (4th to 3rd is ok.)

What is the problem? Is it just time for a rebuild? Will playing with the linkage fix this?

I am just before the beginning of a complete restoration of this car. I have a few other projects that need finishing first, and until than, this is a "fun" Sunday driver.

Any tips would be great. Someone did suggest to me that any rust on the input shaft could do this.

 

[ratio411]

My car did similar things when the clutch was out of adjustment.
It wasn't fully disengaging.
Makes for hard shifting at times.

 

[D.Hearne]

Sounds like time for new blocker rings (also called Syncronizer rings) If that doesn't cure it, the syncro teeth on the gears themselves are worn and you'll need to install new gears, if you do, although it will be expensive, I'd recomend changing all the gears. New ones may be the correct gears, but the old ones will be worn-in together and if you don't do all at the same time, you'll end up with a " whiny" transmission with gears that are not worn-in together. Anyhow, a rebuild kit with new blocker rings, bearings and other small parts will run about $150 (last time I looked anyway) It can be rebuilt using simple tools yourself. Go to www.4speedtoploaders.com for parts. This is David Kee's site, Toploaders are all he does, builds new ones from the ground up even. He includes instructions with the rebuild kits.

 

[BullittStangV8]

How many quarts does the toploader hold btw? The "finger in the hole" method isnt cutting it for me, as I cant get a finger in the hole consitantly to tell fill level. (big fingers, and awkward angle).

 

[D.Hearne]

4 pints. I usually just fill it till it just starts to come back out the filler hole.

 

[runawayabc123]

I thought the top loader was more like 3 quarts... och it was low on oil.

I looked at that top load site and what is the difference between the road race kit and the standard kit? Heavier bearings? Also, the gears sets don't come with first? (2,3,input/4, cluster only)

Lastly, the total is about $900 for all new gears, the heavy rebuild plus kit and shipping.

What is a 4sp top loader worth? I am all for original, but how far will $900 get me to another 4sp that is in better shape? (His website, new 1795, to rebuild mine, likely almost as much unless it doesn't need gears.)

Thanks for your replies too. They have been helpful.

 

[D.Hearne]

1st gear should be there, call him and ask, he's a great guy to deal with. A Toploader core is worth at least $400. They're virtually bullit proof too. A small block one like yours is good for 600 ft lbs torque. I used to run small block Toploaders behind a 427. Before doing anything, pull it and remove the top cover and inspect the syncro teeth on the gears. If they're worn and not sharp looking, then you may need to change them. These are the teeth on the gears themselves, not the brass syncro (blocker) rings the sliders mesh with.

 

[ratio411]

D might be right, but check everything else first.

Like I said, maladjusted clutch linkage had the same effects on mine.

Just check everything first before you crack open the tranny.

D knows what he is talking about, I am just trying to be optimistic!

 

[D.Hearne]

Misadjusted shifter can also cause problems as well. The factory shifter left a lot to be desired (as did all, giving Hurst a market)