toploader

66fstbk88 · Aug 26, 2009

I hear many people talk about how Toploaders are tough as nails.. I seen a guy selling 1 off a '65 200 inline 6 three speed. Would this fit in the same category as "tough as nails"
Also, about how much power can these puppies take?

shoguun · Aug 26, 2009

6 cylinder transmissions are good for 6 cylinders. i think toploaders are 4 speeds. there is no way your stock I6 transmission will hold up to a v8 but if you are keeping it for a straight 6 than i think there pretty good. Ive have also heard toploaders are bullet proof.

66fstbk88 · Aug 26, 2009

k.. i was just curious.. im in tha middle of doing my TKO swap anyway

shoguun · Aug 27, 2009

i would go with a tko anyway. its modern and its a 5 speed unless your getting the 6 speed

dennis112 · Aug 27, 2009

That 3 speed is technically a toploader since its gears go in through the top of the case. Unfortunately it is also a 100% totally different design that is not even close to the one found in a V8. The 65 200 3 speeds are very puny and weak in comparison. Not even worth the consideration.

D.Hearne · Aug 27, 2009

Just for future reference, the later 3 speed Toploaders are tough as nails, tough enough that Ford put em behind big blocks. My 67 FB 390 Stang had one from the factory.

2+2GT · Aug 27, 2009

66fstbk88 said:
I hear many people talk about how Toploaders are tough as nails.. I seen a guy selling 1 off a '65 200 inline 6 three speed. Would this fit in the same category as "tough as nails"
Also, about how much power can these puppies take?

Maybe "tough as a pinkie nail on a valley girl". The 170/200 in those years used the "2.77" 3-speed transmission, a lightweight, low-cost manual with non-synchronized first gear. It does load from the top, but with its tiny case, a 10-year-old girl could carry it easily.

The V8 cars used the "3.03" 3-speed manual transmission, and this one was tough, even sharing some internal parts with the "toploader" 4-speed.

I guess Ford got tired of warranty claims, since even the 6 cylinder engine could trash this transmission. Starting in 1967 even the 6 cylinder cars got the 3.03.

65ShelbyClone · Aug 28, 2009

Just to clarify further, the Toploader 4-speed transmissions got either a 2.78 first gear(wide ratio gearset) or 2.32 (close ratio).

I much prefer the 4-speed version.

rbohm · Aug 29, 2009

66fstbk88 said:
I hear many people talk about how Toploaders are tough as nails.. I seen a guy selling 1 off a '65 200 inline 6 three speed. Would this fit in the same category as "tough as nails"
Also, about how much power can these puppies take?

if it is the four bolt top loader, then not much. if you want a three speed trans, the nine bolt top loader is the one you want as it is just as tough as the top loader four speeds.

ace_xp2 · Aug 30, 2009

FWIW, my searching about found most guys taking the four speed to 650hp seemingly without issues.
At least, not much gets posted on them breaking.

D.Hearne · Aug 30, 2009

ace_xp2 said:
FWIW, my searching about found most guys taking the four speed to 650hp seemingly without issues.
At least, not much gets posted on them breaking.

The small block Toploaders were rated for about that figure. The bigblock Toploader? Who knows...................I ran the small block Toploaders behind a 390 and later a 427. Good stuff. The one in my 89 Ranger is 41 years old, rebuilt once (maybe) and only recently lost the 3rd and 4th gear syncros. It still shifts, only you have to wait between gears for them to mesh. When cooler weather sets in, it's going to be replaced with another.

65ShelbyClone · Aug 30, 2009

Yeah, and the blocker rings aren't really a power-related failure. The small shaft Toploaders are tough, but I have a hard time imagining what it would take to break a big shaft transmission. I managed to break a case once in a '65 coupe, but that was from a u-joint failure and not overpowering the parts.

dennis112 · Aug 31, 2009

I drag race my toploader every week using drag slicks and holding the go pedal to the medal. The only issues I had with the small block toploader is that the input shafts will twist and cause the clutch to not engage properly. At first I thought this was a fluke, until I replace it and twisted the replacement the very next week!

Note that the bottom one is the only one that is straight. I was putting about 450hp to it at the time and was launching around 3K.

I then upgraded the input shaft to the 1 3/8" big block style replacement and have had no issues with it with 5K launches and even more HP.

You can see the difference of the SB and the BB input shafts.

Other than occasional gear replacement due to worn engagement teeth, the toploader has been reasonably bullet proof since. I did save up enough $$ and later went back in to upgrade the output shaft to 31 splines, although the old 28 spline stuff held up just find.

The brass blocker rings wear on the inside where they meet the gear more than they wear on their engagement points.

A fully adjustable race clutch also helps to save parts at the track. On the street, I doubt that you will ever twist a SB input shaft. Even the SB ones are quite tough on the street.

If you are interested in the BB input shaft/output shaft conversions, I did some writeups on them:

Toploader Input Shaft Replacement - FordMuscle.com Forums

31 Spline Toploader Output Shaft Conversion - FordMuscle.com Forums

Modifying A Clutch Fork - FordMuscle.com Forums

D.Hearne · Sep 2, 2009

Just to avoid confusion, note that the pic of the big block shaft isn't a stock one. It's a big block style with a small block length front snout.

65ShelbyClone · Sep 2, 2009

In the back of my head I was saying to myself "I didn't know there were any big input shafts for smallblocks."

Didn't the Boss 302s have an extended pilot bushing so they could use BB transmissions with the shorter snout?

2+2GT · Sep 2, 2009

65ShelbyClone said:
Didn't the Boss 302s have an extended pilot bushing so they could use BB transmissions with the shorter snout?

No. However, Glazier Nolan can provide such a bushing.

rbohm · Sep 2, 2009

dont forget that the 429 top loaders used the same length input shaft as the small blocks, just larger diameter. it was the FE's that used the shorter input shaft.

2+2GT · Sep 2, 2009

The extended bushing was developed years ago when 390 4-speeds were selling cheap. No kidding. With the extended bushing, the 390 4-speed transmission will bolt right into a 289, 302, or 351 bell and clutch.

D.Hearne · Sep 2, 2009

65ShelbyClone said:
In the back of my head I was saying to myself "I didn't know there were any big input shafts for smallblocks."

Didn't the Boss 302s have an extended pilot bushing so they could use BB transmissions with the shorter snout?

Yes, they did. The same bushing was also used in the early Broncos.

D.Hearne · Sep 2, 2009

rbohm said:
dont forget that the 429 top loaders used the same length input shaft as the small blocks, just larger diameter. it was the FE's that used the shorter input shaft.

That's the first I've heard that. Good to know.,

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