TURBO and SUPER CHARGER QUESTIONS...

[JUCD 5.0]

I'm in the process of building a 347. I have the Mexican 302 block that I am stroking to a 347 and I have been planning on shooting nitrous (150+) shot BUT I just decided I MIGHT want to add a Supercharger or a turbo (possibly twin turbo depending on price) ALONG with the nitrous (maybe or a bad idea?). Depending on the price, i'd of course install it myself so i would save on labor.

First my goal is to run in the 9's.

What are your suggestions to this?

Will the Trick Flow R series intake work well with this set-up? Or do I need something completely different.

Turbo or SC?
Which turbo?
Which SC should i go with? Vortech, Procharger, Paxton?

I will be buying the Lintech AOD tranny, so I need my Mustang to be streetable BUT I would LOVE to hit a 9 second pass at the track. Is this possible?

How big of injectors do I need? MAF? Throttle body?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance guys. Some of you have been a huge help to me thus far in my decisions on what direction to go in.

 

[JUCD 5.0]

I would prefer to keep the power adder in the 3500 range. I'm not looking to spend much more then that. So if I can;t get into a TT set up then I might just get a SC?

 

[millhouse]

I would prefer to keep the power adder in the 3500 range. I'm not looking to spend much more then that. So if I can;t get into a TT set up then I might just get a SC?

Unless you fabricate some of it yourself, it's not going to happen with a twin setup. Why not just go with a nice single?

 

[JUCD 5.0]

I don;t know, because "more is always better" but maybe not in this case...what do you suggest?

MY GOAL....
I WANT 9's for sure out of my 347 stroker. I have a Mexican block thats getting stroked in a few weeks to a 347, and I already have Victor jr heads that I can if needed will port and polish for more air flow, I will be getting a custom cam done once I know exactly what I am going with, lintech tranny(AOD), K member, trick flow R series intake. Thats the plan so far. Now what would I need TURBO wise to run 9's or even low 9's?

What HP can a Mexican block hold without breaking, I plan on getting a stud gurdle if needed.

What single turbo do you all suggest? I want A LOT of power, BUT at the same time i want to keep it around 3500 bucks and streetable, mostly track but I would like to cruise around town also.

 

[1991vert]

you want 9's? with that block?

this is something i will never understand. people dump all of this money into a turd and when it blows or breaks in half, what do they have to show for it? usually nothing! you can do all the block "strengthening" you want with main girdles, lifter valley girdles, but all it's gonna do is hold the thing together when it splits. do it right the first time or i'd lower your expectations of 9 seconds. you would be on borrowed time, for sure.

 

[JUCD 5.0]

Then i'd rather have a 10 second 347. Forget dumping the turbo on it because I know I can pull a 10 second pass with a built 347 spraying. I don;t have 2K for a block, on top of 4 K for a turbo, on top of 2K for a 347 kit, on top of all the other machine work, k member, exhaust, intake, MAF, TB, painting W/stripes, wheels/tires, etc etc

SO as you see i'm doing a TON of stuff and i'm at my limits spending wise on the Mustang.

SO is it possible to run 9's on a mexican block with a 347 turbo charged? Or is it definately going to break?

 

[millhouse]

I don;t know, because "more is always better" but maybe not in this case...what do you suggest?

MY GOAL....
I WANT 9's for sure out of my 347 stroker. I have a Mexican block thats getting stroked in a few weeks to a 347, and I already have Victor jr heads that I can if needed will port and polish for more air flow, I will be getting a custom cam done once I know exactly what I am going with, lintech tranny(AOD), K member, trick flow R series intake. Thats the plan so far. Now what would I need TURBO wise to run 9's or even low 9's?

What HP can a Mexican block hold without breaking, I plan on getting a stud gurdle if needed.

What single turbo do you all suggest? I want A LOT of power, BUT at the same time i want to keep it around 3500 bucks and streetable, mostly track but I would like to cruise around town also.

The problem with more being better is it's going to cost more. There really is no need to run twins anymore besides #1, the coolness factor and #2, the coolness factor. Really, the only reason I did it was it was cost effective to do a DIY twin setup using turbocoupe t3's. For some reason…whenever you mention you have a "twin turbo 5.0" everyone drops what they are doing to oogle over it.

Now as far as running 9's go…I'd talk to Brian over at B&G turbo ( http://www.bgturbokits.com/store/ ) and ask him what your going to need.

There are many guys ripping off 9's on Mexican blocks. If you keep the rpm's down and get everything balanced well…there is a decent chance it may last a while too. Keep in mind…you can split a block on the spray just like you can with a turbo or supercharger. If you want a dead nut's reliable setup that is going to run 9's….there is no way around getting an aftermarket block.

 

[JUCD 5.0]

The problem with more being better is it's going to cost more. There really is no need to run twins anymore besides #1, the coolness factor and #2, the coolness factor. Really, the only reason I did it was it was cost effective to do a DIY twin setup using turbocoupe t3's. For some reason…whenever you mention you have a "twin turbo 5.0" everyone drops what they are doing to oogle over it.

Now as far as running 9's go…I'd talk to Brian over at B&G turbo ( http://www.bgturbokits.com/store/ ) and ask him what your going to need.

There are many guys ripping off 9's on Mexican blocks. If you keep the rpm's down and get everything balanced well…there is a decent chance it may last a while too. Keep in mind…you can split a block on the spray just like you can with a turbo or supercharger. If you want a dead nut's reliable setup that is going to run 9's….there is no way around getting an aftermarket block.

What do you mean when you say "Keep the RPM's down" ? Thanks for all the help so far. I know nothing about turbo's since I usually have only worked with nitrous, and a few superchargers. I am going to e-mail brian and see what he has to say.

 

[millhouse]

What do you mean when you say "Keep the RPM's down" ? Thanks for all the help so far. I know nothing about turbo's since I usually have only worked with nitrous, and a few superchargers. I am going to e-mail brian and see what he has to say.

I mean just that. It's a combination of things that usually kills 5.0 blocks…and elevated hp/torque levels along with high rpm puts you in the high risk area. The stresses put on the block at elevated piston speeds are extreme…especially with a 347 setup. If you can run 9's while keeping the rpm in a lower rpm range…then you have a much greater chance of keeping your block in one piece.

 

[1991vert]

i agree. just don't get greedy and the block should last

 

[JUCD 5.0]

So are you guys saying try to build a lower RPM motor?

Or just don't run her up to 6500+ rpm's? Kinda short shift it when running? Say around 5500rpm's?

I can just install a RPM chip in my MSD 6AL box to ensure even if i am greedy it'll stop it from going that high.

Am I following you or have I confused myself?

How much do you think i'd need to spend for a decent kit that works well and puts down a lot of power, 9 seconds is what i'd like, even 9.9 is cool with me lol, I need a goal and I'm already in the 10's with my Viper SO my Mustang needs to take the crown back and rule again.

 

[Jo_885o]

B&G and Ponydown would be my choice. Turbos really dont cost that much and to put your 347 in the low 10 range is rather not taht difficult. But like those before me make sure if your trying 9's the block can handle it. And like my fellow turbo haver Millhouse said keep the rpm's down or KABLOUIE......

 

[Foxfan88]

i'd build the motor up really nice, with some low compression. and get the good heads cam and intake setup for forced induction. or ring the heads etc etc

and get a YS style vortech and throw massive amounts of boost at it. that should get you going pretty fast. but i would also highly reccommend a nice aftermarket block. you will definatley be in block splitting territory wanting to go that fast.

and it would suck royally if you got it all together and broke it before you ever got a good pass with.

i wouldnt try to budget this stuff out and try to get it cheap. to go that fast and be reliable its going to cost some serious cash.

 

[JUCD 5.0]

Thanks for the advice and info so far guys. I'm looking into both SC + Turbo's still and once I get some prices i'll decide what to do. So far it looks like i'll just throw a SC on it, and keep a little juice for the track and see what I can pull. Thanks again guys.

 

[millhouse]

So are you guys saying try to build a lower RPM motor?

Or just don't run her up to 6500+ rpm's? Kinda short shift it when running? Say around 5500rpm's?

I can just install a RPM chip in my MSD 6AL box to ensure even if i am greedy it'll stop it from going that high.

Am I following you or have I confused myself?

How much do you think i'd need to spend for a decent kit that works well and puts down a lot of power, 9 seconds is what i'd like, even 9.9 is cool with me lol, I need a goal and I'm already in the 10's with my Viper SO my Mustang needs to take the crown back and rule again.

What I mean is…your going to need to match your intake, heads and cam to keep the powerband in a lower range to keep that block alive. I'd say 6k rpm and under. It's not short shifting if that’s where you plan your powerband to be.

 

[ninety15.0]

i agree with everything that has been said so far. Millhouse is right on the money. There is no need to build a 347 on a stock block and wind it out to 6k+ rpm.

The key to your setup is going to be a well matched combo. And by that i mean the following:

- The stroker kit must be of high quality...(read: well balanced) and make sure the motor is balanced from flywheel to balancer! Not just the rotating assy.

- The HCI (top end) must be well matched and street friendly (read: streetlike powerband 1500-6000rpm)

- The Vic Jr heads you have are pretty big as it is (210cc) and they are more of a high rpm head. You could make these work for you but you need a more streetfriendly intake. I think the R-series intake would be pretty nicely matched with the vic jr's...but that will make your peak power well over 6k rpm. The cam will have to be custom. You really need to tame the motor down a little bit....bring the powerband down so you are making peak power somewhere under 6krpm. This will help make the block last a little longer.

- Now you can properly size your turbo based on the rest of the motor/tranny combo. I cant see you needing much more than a 70mm turbo and 12psi. This will bring you well into the 10's.

good luck man.

 

[57fairlane]

What HP can a Mexican block hold without breaking, I plan on getting a stud gurdle if needed.

Stud girdle? For the heads . . . ?

Anyways.

352" mexican block
twin t3/t4s (old incon kit)
stock twisted wedge heads
twisted wedge stage II cam
lentech AOD

I know Barry never got a good pass out of it, but it did go 138-140 through the 1/4 a couple of times before he sold it. I want to say he went a string of 10.0s, the car was definitely setup to be a handler instead of just a drag car.

He started the "Mexican Block" thread on turboforums.com and currently works at Proline Race Engines.

 

[Nova]

by building a 347 you stuffing more stroke into the same block, thus creating more compression, which is bad for boost. i say just drop the nitrous on it like planned before.

or go with an NX dual stage plate kit and shoot 100-150 per stage. 100 out of the whole and grab the second kit when the front tires come back down?

 

[ninety15.0]

I dont know why you think displacement or stroke has anything to do with compression?!!!!? You can have a 7:1 CR 347 and you can have a 14:1 CR 302!!! It all depends on the compression height of the piston, the headgasket thickness and the combustion chamber size! displacement has nothing to do with it.

Nitrous loves compression by the way. That would be your other option. You could just built a sick high compression longblock and spray the hell out of it.

Take your vic jr's and max port them...run a ported systemax, ported RPMII or ported trickflow R-series....and have someone grind you a serious nitrous cam. Run 11.5 or 12:1 compresssion and spray the hell out of it.

If you go with this scenario...spend as much as you can afford on the motor itself....nitrous kits are way cheaper than a blower/turbo!

 

[347 Pony]

Nitrous is way cheaper only until you have to fill the bottle twice a week if you race regularly. Out here it is about $50 to fill a 10# bottle. Do you plan on competing in a class or just going to the track and running. I wouldn't suggest bracket racing on nitrous but thats just me. If you are going to race in a class look at the rules, they may have power adder restrictions and being a stroker is considered 1 power adder already.