turbo or supercharger

[gotchopsticks]

i dont kno if this is more of a tech or talk subject, so feel free to move it, and i appologize for bugging you guys about this common question, but what would be better: turbo or supercharger(of any kind)
i have an 02 gt, and with the basic bolt ons, but i am saving up for forced induction, and i am torn between turbo or supercharger. i have recently built 3 hondas with turbos on them and seen awesome gains. normally between 200 and 250% hp gains. that to me is very impressive. ive researched some supercharger sites and saw that they only advertise up to about 75% hp gains. and ive seen some sig's that show 400+ rwhp on stangs with superchargers. the hondas me and my bro built were pushing 450whp as well. so i am wondering what kind of gains turboed stangs are making, and what it would take to achieve that. i kno alot of people talk about the parasthetic loss from a supercharger, but with the new superchargers, it is very minimal, and with the newer turbos, the lag has also been minimized. i also kno that the hondas are able to make such great gains because they can rev about 2500k more than a stang, so another question would be: how could i make my stang rev higher and be safe with it. sorry for the length, but i need both side before i spend $4000 on my car.

thanks for the help guys :SNSign: rules!!

 

[Dragstr05]

I'm by no means a complete expert, but maybe I can help somewhat.

First, you wont get a mustang turbo kit for $4,000 - period. Unless ofcourse you build your own kit, but I'm still not sure how much it will tally up to. Every turbo kit I have seen for the 4.6 is VERY complete. They come in single and twin, and most are very extensive in what they replace. Every kit I have seen goes as far as replacing the front suspension with coilovers, and I think some replace the K member with a tubular unit. Look to spend upwards of $7,000 for a complete turbo kit.

The 400rwhp numbers you are seeing are likely on the stock short block. The stock block is limited around that power output because the rods will give if you make much more than that. A little more boost and a supercharger will give you the power you are seeking, provided your car can support it. A novi 2000 for example will support a 600hp car.

To rev higher, I know for sure you will valve springs to prevent valve float. If your looking for more revs, a DOHC 4.6 will probably suit your needs better. The N/A 32v engines rev to 6,800 I believe, and the supercharged 03/04 cobra revs to 6,500rpm.

If 400rwhp is your goal, I suggest the supercharger route. Its alot cheaper and more straightforward. If you really want to put some money in to your car and upgrade to a built short block with a forged rotating assembly, a turbo setup will surely be able to support any amount of power your built shortblock can take.

 

[gotchopsticks]

so would a better route be to swap in a 4v motor, like an 02-03 cobra, and then charge it with either a turbo or supercharger?

how long will the stock short block last if i slap on a kenne bell 1.7 or 2.2? this will not be my daily driver, i have a honda for that. but if you can, estimate life length in miles not in months. thanks

 

[Dragstr05]

You dont necessarily NEED a 4v engine, but they are more revvy and you talked about wanting that capability. The 2v engine is more than capable of meeting your power goals.

How long the stock short block will last isnt very easy to answer. Basically, if you have a GOOD tune (cannot stress that enough!), and don't go too crazy with the boost (prob 8-9psi tops on stock short block), then there is no reason that the stock block wont last for tens of thousands of miles. In fact, it probably wont shorten the life of your engine much at all, assuming you dont go crazy with boost, and you have a good tune. Do either one of those wrong, and you can kiss your engine goodbye. Any FI engine, mustang or not, with a bad tune is just a rolling time bomb.

 

[gotchopsticks]

well the tune isnt a problem, i live maybe 10 miles from Brothers Performance Wherehouse, and i heard they do good tunes. my goal is just 400-450 rwhp, and once i get the supercharger, there probably wont be many major mods to the motor. next will be suspension and the works. i dont think i will be able to afford a forged short block, or a 4v swap and the charger...so stock will have to do. any preferance for my goal? kenne bell? paxton? mongoose? which will be easier on my engine, along with putting out good numbers, and reliability?

thanks

 

[Dragstr05]

For an all around good supercharger, go Kenne Bell. Alot of people on these boards have them and absolutely love them. Boost is right there, no waiting, and they put out good numbers.

 

[03ghoststang]

get the Kb or what ever S/C you want first and keep it under 400HP with a real good tune but start saving up for a forged short block so you can up the boost levels

 

[gotchopsticks]

are used kb's any good? or should i just buy a new one? 1.7 or 2.2?

would it be a good investment to get a 98 cobra motor, rebuild it, and then charge it, if the motor is cheap?

thanks everyone

 

[Dragstr05]

If you want to keep the stock short block, get the 1.7. If you want to put out big numbers later with a built bottom end, get a 2.2.

Good investment to get the 98? Maybe. It really all depends how much power you want to make. If somewhere in the neighborhood of 450rwhp is your goal, just get a built shortblock and keep the 2v setup, run more boost and be done with it.

 

[Jackie Chan]

did you fab up the honda turbo kits yourself? if so you should already know how much cheaper a turbo kit can be if you know how to build it

 

[mogs01gt]

did you fab up the honda turbo kits yourself? if so you should already know how much cheaper a turbo kit can be if you know how to build it

exactly.


and if all you want is 400-450 rwhp, its a not brainer. Super charger is the cheapest route to go. You can get a Mongoose kit that is advertised here. With bolt ons and the kit, you will be at the power you want on the stock engine with zero problems.

 

[topless98gt]

so would a better route be to swap in a 4v motor, like an 02-03 cobra, and then charge it with either a turbo or supercharger?

how long will the stock short block last if i slap on a kenne bell 1.7 or 2.2? this will not be my daily driver, i have a honda for that. but if you can, estimate life length in miles not in months. thanks

My friend just swapped a Romeo into his 98 Cobra It's hella rad. He has a s/c on his, not sure what brand though. He did, however, get HIDs and then buy some projected headlines. Again, a very sweet addition to any Mustang.

 

[gotchopsticks]

did you fab up the honda turbo kits yourself? if so you should already know how much cheaper a turbo kit can be if you know how to build it

not exactly, but finding mix-matched turbo parts for a honda is much easier than for a stang. in my area, every other civic hatch or crx is turboed...cannot say that same for a stang. i kno i could probably fab up some piping, but what sized turbo should i go for? and what kind of management? im still new to the late model mustangs. thanks alot guys

 

[bryan0]

i kno i could probably fab up some piping, but what sized turbo should i go for? and what kind of management? im still new to the late model mustangs. thanks alot guys

Just to throw some numbers out there, do not take them to be the be all end all:
Most single turbos are around 70mm, twins are 50mm each.
by management I assume you mean fuel?
42# injectors
255lph pump is a standard

Again though, these are rough numbers to help you get an idea, they are by no means exact. Good Luck.

 

[gotchopsticks]

what numbers are you talking about? hp numbers, or turbo numbers? if you mean hp, then the most my engine can handle with stock short block, and soon to be upgraded heads (valve springs, cams, retainers) i assume turbos might be a little easier on the engine for just cruising because while cruising there is no boost being applied, but for a supercharger there is still a small amount, correct? plus i can change the amount of boost by simply changing the waste gate spring. just as easily done on a supercharger by changing the pulley.

see, this is why i am so undecided. so many pros to each.

but the scream of a kb might just prevail...

 

[sgarlic]

HP Stage 2, or KB 2.2, minimum.

 

[Jackie Chan]

forged rotating assembly and 70mm single turbo. that would be good for 500-550+ with proper tuning

 

[TweekedGT]

KB's don't make hardly any noise. Trust me . If you are going to go the KB 2.2 route i hope you have a lot of cash. There are many many more things that need to be upgraded before that baby will run on a GT. Fuel tank, dual pumps, hood, etc.. A 1.7 will do just fine for what you want. I have a 1.7 and a forged shortblock waiting for install and a friend has a KB 1.7 and we cruise often. the 1.7 is still stupid fast if you get the 9# intercooled kit. I had the option of going turbo but decided on KB instead. From my friends ride compared to the turbo cars I've been in I'm not dissappointed with my choice. The KB feels like you got kicked in the tailbone when it hooks. I was sore the next day after the last time we went cruising in the KB. That's how violent the launches are when you hook a KB. Turbo, na. My .02.

 

[y2k02]

If you want to go turbo. You need to save alot more money. I guess you are running 2bar to get 450hp in the honda. I made 600rwhp at 1.2bar. You don't have to rev it past 6500rpm.

 

[gotchopsticks]

what all do i need to upgrade if i get the 1.7kb with the 9# intercooler kit