tweecer noob

broken_joke · Dec 7, 2005

having troubles finding a starting point. i have done lots of reading but still having some problems. first, how do i plug in my values from the flow sheet to the maf table? should i start with the zao or j4j1? i am running a 351w with 42's and pro m 85 cal's for 42's. tried changing some values and still can't get it to stay on and idle?
thanks

broken_joke · Dec 7, 2005

finally got it running but it wasn't immediate. had to hold on gas to get it to stay on for a bit. then after it got a little warmer it idled fine. i turned on the the calcon to see what was going on and it seems like the car idles much better in closed loop and when it is in open loop it fights to stay on. it won't run at the idle i set on the scalar. any suggestions?

db1994 · Dec 7, 2005

broken_joke said:
finally got it running but it wasn't immediate. had to hold on gas to get it to stay on for a bit. then after it got a little warmer it idled fine. i turned on the the calcon to see what was going on and it seems like the car idles much better in closed loop and when it is in open loop it fights to stay on. it won't run at the idle i set on the scalar. any suggestions?

Fix your MAF trasnfer, make sure your injector slopes are right, and make sure the minimum pulsewidh on the injectors is right. Are you using a transfer from an actual sheet that came with your MAF, or are you just using a pre-laoded one that is tha same model as your MAF?

-Jason

broken_joke · Dec 7, 2005

i'm trying to input the sheet from pro - m but i don't know how to do that? wi tried to set the low at 50 and high at 42 and i tried both at 42 seemed more cooperative with both at 42? as for min pulsewidth i am still learning and don't know what to set value(s) to? thanks for any help

broken_joke · Dec 7, 2005

should i try a smaller pulse width

broken_joke · Dec 7, 2005

i can't get the maf transfer to convert to 30pt. i keep getting " not floating point value error?

final5-0 · Dec 7, 2005

broken_joke said:
i can't get the maf transfer to convert to 30pt. i keep getting " not floating point value error?

I am not a fan of V1.30 CalEdit so I'm not too familiar with it.

but, IIRC

V1.30 will not accurately convert the values from your ProM sheet to a 30 point curve if that is what you are trying to do.

Do you have EECAnalyzer?

You may just want to use a generic curve that you can find in CalEdit?

Grady

broken_joke · Dec 7, 2005

i just paid for the eec analyzer this morning.i have to send clint a copy of the machine code then i guess i can use it?

a50sn95 · Dec 7, 2005

yes, send it. He'll send you the response code right back.
Great Software!

final5-0 · Dec 7, 2005

a50sn95 said:
yes, send it. He'll send you the response code right back.
Great Software!

Dennis

Was I right about a prob with V1.30 CE creating maf curves?

Grady

broken_joke · Dec 7, 2005

i tried to convert to 30 pt thru the excel spreadsheet but couldn't make that work

blksn955.o · Dec 7, 2005

EA should be able to get that MAF curve straight for you.

also with those 42's you need to work with your breakpoint, high/low slopes and batt. voltage .v offset.

The biggie is getting the MAF transfer correct. I would start with the flowsheat from ProM enterd' into EA and use what it spits out and datalog that setup and run it threw EA again. Along with the basic MAF transfer I would setup a basic inj. slope with 42 (I forget which slope high or low) and then 42 x 1.2 for the other. You might have to play around with breakpoints to get it sorted correct, also with the J4J1 you might want to change that breakpoint to one from the T4M0 for starters as the J4J1 is setup for slopes to be even for the 24's.

Thats my sug. anyway.

final5-0 · Dec 7, 2005

Just as a way to know the curve you built is not way out in left field .............................

Compare yours to a generic
They should be pretty close!

Low slope at 42
High slope at 50

Offsets can be found in faq section of support site

Breakpoint is not that big of a deal as you are gonna tweec it anyway
Might start off with the t4m0 value as Greg said

I believe I would start with the j4j1 cal file

Don't forget to load in your C I size

Almost forgot!

When working with the maf curve ...............

Don't import/export any values!
Hand load all of em!

Double check each voltage & kilogram cell in the curve and refresh
Check all of em again before saving

After saving ...... recheck all cells one last time.

A curve that has errors can drive you nuts, lol.

You need to be sure it is right as all of the tune is built on top of it ...... its just gotta be accurate!

Have fun and welcome to self tuning!

Grady

a50sn95 · Dec 7, 2005

final5-0 said:
Dennis

Was I right about a prob with V1.30 CE creating maf curves?

Grady

I don't know. I've never tried it. Now that you mention it, I'm not sure where my 30 point came from. I HAVE a flow sheet from Pro-M, but I got it at least 5 years ago. I THINK I used Paul Booth's software from WAY back to make my 30 point. I've just been refining it the last 6 months since I got my WB....
I guess I need to revisit this......
Thanks!
Dennis

final5-0 · Dec 7, 2005

a50sn95 said:
I don't know. I've never tried it. Now that you mention it, I'm not sure where my 30 point came from. I HAVE a flow sheet from Pro-M, but I got it at least 5 years ago. I THINK I used Paul Booth's software from WAY back to make my 30 point. I've just been refining it the last 6 months since I got my WB....
I guess I need to revisit this......
Thanks!
Dennis

I used Pauls software as well

Then again ... back then ... if you remember ..................

all there was to build a curve was Paul's software or MS Excell, lol.

I told someone a while back the same thing when they asked me how I built my curve.

Most peeps I've seen lately have used Clint's E A program to build their curve.

Grady

a50sn95 · Dec 7, 2005

I've been using EA to refine my MAF curve off of my WB. I did do a little adjusting at the drag strip because it was a bit rich down low compared to commanded, but other than that it's pretty close.
Yeah, I remember. I remember writing Tweecer tunes as bin files with the VERY early software. You could open them in the EEC-Tuner software and lok at them that way. I liked it because you could SEE the differences between two tune. Now, I have to keep notes....

a50sn95 · Dec 7, 2005

broken_joke said:
having troubles finding a starting point. i have done lots of reading but still having some problems. first, how do i plug in my values from the flow sheet to the maf table? should i start with the zao or j4j1? i am running a 351w with 42's and pro m 85 cal's for 42's. tried changing some values and still can't get it to stay on and idle?
thanks

Start with the J4J1. Most people use that, so we'll all be talking apples to apples.
Set the Minimum Pulse width to something like .000401, which are the Lightning numbers (42's stock)
I has my slopes at 42/49, but I think I'm gonna try 42/42 like the stock J4J1 uses.
If you put your setup in your Sig, we may have other suggestions...
If you have a different intake/Cam/heads/supercharger/etc, all of these WILL affect your idle. Open loop is trying to use predetermined values in your EEC to run the engine, and you are 50 cubes bigger, plus whatever other mods you have, so they ain't gonna work. You'll probably have to get your TB Airflow numbers, ISC Neutral Idle Airflow, and Dashpot Preposition settings adjusted as well. It's in the EA software, and well worth it to do because trying to do ANYTHING if it won't idle is a PITA.
Here's a linke to some info I posted on the Tweecer site:
http://tweecer.oplnk.net/viewtopic.php?t=5156

broken_joke · Dec 8, 2005

my setup is351w(357), afr 205's,spyder intake,90mm accufab tb, c&l 76 mass air and prom m 85(pro m is installed at the moment) 42# inj,trick flow stage 1 cam(have a comp cam but won't install till i can get something figured out with the tweecer)long tube headers 1 3/4 primaries,3in exhaust , tremec 3550 tranny,355 gears.i think that is everything

i actually did alot of playing with the zao bin and have a working model of that despite the poor idle in open loop. i will try the j4j1 also just to see if it cooperates better.
i got eec analyzer working last night but need to search around to access it's abilities. i will try the suggestions above and see how things work out.
i appreciate the help!
thanks

broken_joke · Dec 8, 2005

made injector pulse width change and idle improved significantly. also have both slopes at 42

a50sn95 · Dec 8, 2005

Yeah, you've definitly got enough mods that the Airflow numbers need to be looked at. Sell the C&L MAF, the Pro-M is the better choice for this setup. Actually, since it's only 85mm, and your TB is 90mm, the MAF is a restriction.
The Trick Flow cam is tiny for your combo, but if you swap it out, your airflow numbers will change, and need to be reset.
There are some adjustments that people make for long tubes (O2 pulse delay, or something like that), but I have shorties so I don't have any reccomendation there.
Should be alot of fun. Does it fit under the stock hood? (I have a completely machined 1974 351 block sitting on a stand....)

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