Tweecer tune help please

[BigC3416]

I was wondering if anyone with a similar combo could give me a working tune that I could use just to get my car running right and to go off of while I learn how to use the tweecer properly. I've been trying to tune my car with my tweecer for about a year now, but just dont have the time to really learn how to use it proficiently because I'm so busy with class and work and I'm just not picking it up that fast. But since my car is modded it has some pretty bad driveability issues. Thanks for any help.
My relevant mods are:
94 GT with manual tranny, trick flow TW heads, trick flow stage 1 cam, 1.6 rr, 24# inj, 75mm pro-m, street heat manifold, 65mm tb, long tube headers, o/r h pipe

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Green 94 5.0]

with your mods, you honestly shouldnt have too many driveability issues. i had a similar setup and my only issue was a bit of a hunting idle while cold. at any rate, ill see if i can dig up one of my old n/a tunes and modify it to work with your setup. if i manage to find one, ill shoot you an email.

 

[zenboy99]

We have similar mods, my car runs fine without any tuning, must be the cam.

I'm working on a tune now as well, but if your car doesn't run well and mine does, my tune may not work for you.

 

[Black95GTS]

Green 94 5.0 - You didn't have driveability issues with a new MAF, cam, and different sized injectors??? Usually this plays hell with our computers.

What I would do:

Make sure your timing is at 10 degrees with the spout out. Then start with a J4J1 Cobra tune. This will tell the computer about the 24 pound injectors. Then enter your MAF Transfer flow values which came with the MAF. This should get you up and running and you can tweec from there.

Is your MAF cal'ed for the 24 pounders? If its not then you need to make sure you adjust for that too.

Adam

 

[BigC3416]

Thanks for the replies. I've actually already done exactly what you said black95gts. And I still have horrible cold start problems and just all around rough driveability. So that would most likely point to a mechanical problem correct? I am kind of suspicious of my mass air meter because I keep getting weird MAF curves as I tune it to zero out the KAMRF's. Also I sometimes have KAMRF1 and KAMRF2 not very close to one another. Like say one is at 1.004 and the other is at 1.030. Is that amount of deviation normal or is that a sign of a problem? And I dont have an exhaust leak. Anyone know of a way to test a mass air meter without having to buy a new one? I could post my tune and a datalog if needed. Thanks again for the help.

Chris

 

[final5-0]

Don't know what method you used to build your 30 point curve

but

you can always compare it to the generic curve included in CalEdit

They should be pretty close to each other!

I find it hard to believe the j4j1 is not pretty close to spot on drivability for you.
Even the more so since you use 24's!

Cold start gremlins with 24's is for the most part ... unheard of!

Your LT's could be cooling off the O2's as some have had that prob.

Mine do it ever so slightly and over time, the tune will drift and make the idle a bit unsteady.

You can force Open Loop idle ... ONLY ... as a last resort to drivability happiness if need be.

btw ... my K's vary rarely read the same.

Grady

 

[broken_joke]

what are the symptoms? is the car stumbling on acceleration? is it really rich during startup? if you give more details onto what the cars doing maybe some the experienced tweecers can help a little better?

 

[BigC3416]

I'm using just the generic pro-m 24# maf curve from caledit right now because I'm just starting fresh with my tune since the one I was working on obviously wasn't fixing anything. Only things I have changed from the basic J4J1 are just the thermactor and egr disabled (because I no longer have them on my car) and the injector timing changed to what I got from eec analyzer calculations. On cold startups I have to try and crank it a bunch of times to get it to keep running, it goes to about 800 rpms then dies. I have to give it some throttle to keep it running. Then while driving for another 5 minutes until it is warm I have to keep blipping the throttle with braking and must keep my foot on the gas to keep it from dying at idle. After it warms up it runs decently. Every once and a while I have stumbling at acceleration. It stumbles horribly before it is warmed up though. It does seem to run fine at higher rpms and WOT though. My timing is set to 10 at distributor and my fuel pressure is set to around 38 with no vacuum. I'm going to try another gauge on it just to make sure the one I have isnt giving bad readings. How do I check to see if its running rich at startup? Look at the lambse numbers? If so where should it be normally? Anything else? Thanks a lot for the help so far guys.

Chris

 

[final5-0]

I understand your frustration here
but
I could type stuff until the cows come home and I don't think it would do you any good based on what I've seen you talk about here.

Looks to me you got some kind of major thing that just ain't right!

Bad inj's or maf or someting like that.

The manulipation of the maf curve is better to do for fine tuning AFTER using the EA method of slope adjustment and other inj values to dial in your inj's.

That j4j1 should be pretty much good to go for you right out of the box with say maybe just 10 to 15% more effort on your part for fine tuning.

Then again, that cold start thing is just not right.

Check everything like v leaks, bad electrical connections, defective parts, and the like.

Let us know what you find.

btw ... just remembered this happened to a guy

Check your fuse/fuses to the heater circuits of your O2's

You are not tuning on the switch position where the Tweecer interface is bypassed ... are you?

Grady

 

[Black95GTS]

I'm using just the generic pro-m 24# maf curve from caledit right now because I'm just starting fresh with my tune since the one I was working on obviously wasn't fixing anything. Only things I have changed from the basic J4J1 are just the thermactor and egr disabled (because I no longer have them on my car) and the injector timing changed to what I got from eec analyzer calculations. On cold startups I have to try and crank it a bunch of times to get it to keep running, it goes to about 800 rpms then dies. I have to give it some throttle to keep it running. Then while driving for another 5 minutes until it is warm I have to keep blipping the throttle with braking and must keep my foot on the gas to keep it from dying at idle. After it warms up it runs decently. Every once and a while I have stumbling at acceleration. It stumbles horribly before it is warmed up though. It does seem to run fine at higher rpms and WOT though. My timing is set to 10 at distributor and my fuel pressure is set to around 38 with no vacuum. I'm going to try another gauge on it just to make sure the one I have isnt giving bad readings. How do I check to see if its running rich at startup? Look at the lambse numbers? If so where should it be normally? Anything else? Thanks a lot for the help so far guys.

Chris

Hummm.... try to run more timing at idle. Aluminum heads, in general, like to run more timing which might be why it runs better at higher rpms, more timing there. Check the idle stop screw on your throttle body, perhaps you need to crank it open a bit and raise your idle. Is your idle air controller (or idle speed sensor) indexed properly to air flow? Is the sensor clean?

You really need a wide band to check the a/f mixture if you're wondering if you are running rich.

Other then that, you got me stumped...

Adam

 

[final5-0]

You say you have been working with this stuff for about a year?

Did you start Tweecing before or after the mods?

How does the car run with the Tweecer not involved?

If it doesn't run too good .................
I'd suspect the maf is
bad or the cal is not what you think it is

You could always put the stock maf back on and
load in the stock j4j1 maf curve. This would take the ProM maf out of the picture.

You do know you can use your KAMFR's to see if you are too rich or lean during Closed Loop conditions ...... right.

You should see them moving during Closed Loop conditions and the objective is to get close to 1.00 as that is considered just right.
> than 1.00 is the pcm adding fuel
< than 1.00 is the pcm pulling fuel

When the car is at normal ect's do you see the K's moving around a bit?
If so ...... what is the average value?

Look at each voltage and kghr cell in the maf curve to see if you got a value that doesn't look right. Something like the first or last cell showing something hokey. If you did an import or export of any of the values when you built the curve, that could very well be a prob for you. Just check it out real good.

I guess it is possible your afpr is hosed and feeding too much fuel.

Grady

 

[BigC3416]

Where is the O2 fuse, is it in the underhood fusebox? No I'm tuning on the #1 switch position, full counter clockwise. I'll try advancing the timing around 5-10 degrees and see how that works. How exactly do you index the IAC. Before the mods the car ran fine. I got the tweecer to deal with the problems I knew would come due to how picky our computers are with mods. With the tweecer turned off the car barely runs. Well my stock maf is calibrated for the stock 19#ers wouldnt that make it run even worse? Yea the Kamrfs move around, but they are different values at different rpms and loads.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[final5-0]

Where is the O2 fuse, is it in the underhood fusebox? No I'm tuning on the #1 switch position, full counter clockwise. I'll try advancing the timing around 5-10 degrees and see how that works. How exactly do you index the IAC. Before the mods the car ran fine. I got the tweecer to deal with the problems I knew would come due to how picky our computers are with mods. With the tweecer turned off the car barely runs. Well my stock maf is calibrated for the stock 19#ers wouldnt that make it run even worse? Yea the Kamrfs move around, but they are different values at different rpms and loads.

Thanks,
Chris

Chris

Your stock maf or ... any oem maf for that matter ... is not caled for any size of inj because ..............

that kind of thing is only done by after-market maf makers.

Ford uses the real airflow and inj values in the pcm.

If you wanted to try using the stock maf you would use all the j4j1 24lb inj values and the original j4j1 maf curve.

As for the fuse ... I would think it is in the box under the hood. I was trying to help a guy a good while back and I have told you just what he told me about this subject.

Is it possible you have moved from 1.20 CalEdit to 1.30 CalEdit software?
If so ... that can cause a prob and you need to talk to Dennis as he is more familiar with that issue.

You might try and load all 4 positions on the switch with your latest tune.
I had a strange kind of deal goin on a couple of years ago and saw someone on the tuner site say they had a similar issue and that helped them. I tried it and .. all was good to go but .. I have no logical reason why that was so.

Grady

 

[BigC3416]

Well I found the problem. Just went to a friends and borrowed his pro m from his car with same size injectors. Put it on my car and it started right up. Took it for a drive and it ran fine. So basically this whole time I've been so frustrated with the Tweecer thinking it was just my error in the tuning when I have been overlooking the faulty MAF. Anyone know where to get a new MAF, because I heard that Pro M went out of business but some company is still making their meters or something like that. Also what size would be a good one because I've heard multiple accounts of people having problems with the 75mm ones like mine. Also any tuning tips or basics I should know when I try to start tuning again? Thanks again for the help guys.

Chris

 

[final5-0]

Well I found the problem. Just went to a friends and borrowed his pro m from his car with same size injectors. Put it on my car and it started right up. Took it for a drive and it ran fine. So basically this whole time I've been so frustrated with the Tweecer thinking it was just my error in the tuning when I have been overlooking the faulty MAF. Anyone know where to get a new MAF, because I heard that Pro M went out of business but some company is still making their meters or something like that. Also what size would be a good one because I've heard multiple accounts of people having problems with the 75mm ones like mine. Also any tuning tips or basics I should know when I try to start tuning again? Thanks again for the help guys.

Chris

First of all ...... its good to see you make some headway Chris!

Second thing is this

That maf could be caled for 19's or 30's.

If it has a 30# cal ...... you may be able to use it.

Are there any markings or numbers on it that may give us a clue about the cal?

ProM kinda did
and
kinda did not go out of business

New business name but the same bunch of employees as I have heard.

http://www.massairsystems.com/

Grady

 

[95snoozer]

we may have found the culprit tonight... the maf was cocked wrong. Put it on the bend and he says it is running smoothly.

we shall see.

 

[BigC3416]

Yea my friends meter that I used has 24# written on the cover of the meter. And I just borrowed it off of his car to check if it ran better with his maf than mine. Which it did, and it was a significant difference. It helped when I turned my meter but it still takes a few tries to start it in the morning and it runs terrible for a few minutes after start up. Which meter would you suggest getting ? The 80mm plastic meter? Is there any advantage to the aluminum meter?

Chris

 

[final5-0]

Yea my friends meter that I used has 24# written on the cover of the meter. And I just borrowed it off of his car to check if it ran better with his maf than mine. Which it did, and it was a significant difference. It helped when I turned my meter but it still takes a few tries to start it in the morning and it runs terrible for a few minutes after start up. Which meter would you suggest getting ? The 80mm plastic meter? Is there any advantage to the aluminum meter?

Chris

The 77mm and 80mm meter use to share the same electronics. The plastic 80mm meter use to be cheaper as it could be made cheaper than the Aluminum 77mm meter. I use to tell peeps the 80mm meter was the one to get.

I used the words "used to" a lot above, lol

If you've seen the maf thread that is currently active on this forum you no doubt have seen the info Don gave about various mafs.

With that being said .................

Even though my shorty 80mm ProM meter has been great for me and worked flawlessly for close to three years ............
you may not have the same results as me based on what Don said

I got a feeling your bullet maf has a 19lb cal based on what you've said

Why not try to load in a 19lb curve to see what happens as it will only take a minute or two. That could tell you the maf is not defective and you could sell it to recoupe a little money spent on the new maf.

Grady