TweecerRT and 347 NA:ATTN Grady and Rootus!

[sociopath5.0]

Well guys. The moment of truth is almost here. I have the Tweecer RT and CalEdit and CalCon installed, I plan on doing my first tweec's this weekend, maybe Friday if I can find time. The motor is brand new (see sig or my garage for details) and needs to be broken in first. I have a ton of questions, mostly because I'm new but also because I want to learn how to tune for myself, and want to do it right without causing any damage from stupid mistakes. My goal is to get it running and idling and then start tweecing for drivability.

First off, I have searched the threads and read the FAQ's, and about 50 other threads. That helped. I read the manual on the Tweecer download site, and have looked throught the threads and posts there and on the Yahoo BBS sites. I know the learning curve is steep, but I can handle that. I just want to learn the right information and how to apply it in the best way. Does that make sense? I also wanted to post on here first since I talk to people on stangnet all the time, and I feel like I "know" more people here.

One bit of info I read said that users do not want or need to use and adjustable FPR with a tweecer. Why is that? Is it possible? I figured most of us are running some type of aftermarket AFPR anyway, so I figured it is workable.

Second, I bought a ProM 75mm ProBullet MAF calibrated for 24# off of the classifieds here, but I dont have the flow sheet. Is that absolutely necessary, or can I build a MAF table without it? Is there someplace where I can get a "basic" flow sheet for that model? I know it won't be for my exact meter, but it should be close enough right? I am going to run 36# injectors. Also, I have read that anything over 36# (or maybe its 39#) requires some special scalars and tweec's. Do I need to worry about any of that right now?

As much time, effort and $$$ as I have put into this car, I want to do it right and not cut corners. Thats why I want to learn how to tune and I am willing to be patient and get it all sorted out. I know it's not a quick fix type solution, but it seems to offer the level of tunability and precision that I am looking for at a very reasonable cost.

Any help or guidance you guys could give me would be great and VERY appreciated. I named Grady and Rootus because of their familiarity with the units and because they have posted about it alot helping others out. Anyone's input is welcome though, because I'm so new to this.
Sorry its so long.

Thanks
Lyle

 

[WhiteDevil]

The main reason that we dont use our FPRs any more is because we can now adjust any of our fuel needs with the tweecer itself. Also a lot of the cars basic functions with fuel are based on the assumtion that there is 39psi of fuel with the vacuum line off. So i just set mine there and i dont use it anymore. Also for you maf curve just go into the MAF transfer function of Cal Edit and click load MAF on the middle right side. There will be a list of different MAF curves one will say PROM24 that is the one for you it is the base pro m calibration for 24# injectors. It wont be a perfect match but it will still be pretty close and will easily get you started thats what i did accept i used the PROM19 cause i have a 19# calibration.

 

[final5-0]

Well guys. The moment of truth is almost here. I have the Tweecer RT and CalEdit and CalCon installed, I plan on doing my first tweec's this weekend, maybe Friday if I can find time. The motor is brand new (see sig or my garage for details) and needs to be broken in first. I have a ton of questions, mostly because I'm new but also because I want to learn how to tune for myself, and want to do it right without causing any damage from stupid mistakes. My goal is to get it running and idling and then start tweecing for drivability.

First off, I have searched the threads and read the FAQ's, and about 50 other threads. That helped. I read the manual on the Tweecer download site, and have looked throught the threads and posts there and on the Yahoo BBS sites. I know the learning curve is steep, but I can handle that. I just want to learn the right information and how to apply it in the best way. Does that make sense? I also wanted to post on here first since I talk to people on stangnet all the time, and I feel like I "know" more people here.

One bit of info I read said that users do not want or need to use and adjustable FPR with a tweecer. Why is that? Is it possible? I figured most of us are running some type of aftermarket AFPR anyway, so I figured it is workable.

Second, I bought a ProM 75mm ProBullet MAF calibrated for 24# off of the classifieds here, but I dont have the flow sheet. Is that absolutely necessary, or can I build a MAF table without it? Is there someplace where I can get a "basic" flow sheet for that model? I know it won't be for my exact meter, but it should be close enough right? I am going to run 36# injectors. Also, I have read that anything over 36# (or maybe its 39#) requires some special scalars and tweec's. Do I need to worry about any of that right now?

As much time, effort and $$$ as I have put into this car, I want to do it right and not cut corners. Thats why I want to learn how to tune and I am willing to be patient and get it all sorted out. I know it's not a quick fix type solution, but it seems to offer the level of tunability and precision that I am looking for at a very reasonable cost.

Any help or guidance you guys could give me would be great and VERY appreciated. I named Grady and Rootus because of their familiarity with the units and because they have posted about it alot helping others out. Anyone's input is welcome though, because I'm so new to this.
Sorry its so long.

Thanks
Lyle

Lyle

Don't have a lot of time right at this moment but I'll hit the high spots enough to get you started.

Like John said you no longer need to be changing your fp around. If you change it after you have some of the values in the pcm set for your specific combo then the change in pressure can hose up your previous tuning work with the Tweecer

I would start off with the j4j1 file and not waste any time on the t4m0

First thing you will wanna do is tell the pcm you got a 347 .... wish I had one, lol. This will bring your load more closer to what it should be.

Then like John said get your bullet curve in there.

You are wise with your decision to go for the drivability issues first btw

I would not hose around with the fuel/spark tables until you get a little used to how things work with your Tweecer.

As for your inj's
high slope value = 36
low slope value = 36X1.2
offsets you will have to look them up for your 36's
breakpoint you will have to play around with it to see (EA program will help)
minimum pulse width you will have to play with that one as well

Download the EEC Analyzer so you can read all the help files.... very very packed with good info in those files. If you decide to use that program (it will make your tuning much less of a hassle) you can pay for it at a later time.

That should get you in the ballpark for the 36's and you can dial them in even closer later on.

Last thing is with the 36's you MIGHT have to dial a little fuel back at idle conditions. Until you get used to things the easier way would be to work with the maf curve. Have MAF & MAFV included in your payload so you can see those two things when you datalog. You then use the datalog to see where in the 30 point curve you idle at.

Example: you idle at point 6 in the curve.
Say point 6 is 0.9 volts@25kg of airflow
Say you want to lean out things at idle by 5%
The new point 6 would now be 0.9 [email protected] of airflow
Since you have told the pcm that at 0.9v the airflow is less it will command less fuel at that voltage......................pretty slick don't you think

You change the air flow value and DON'T hose with the voltage values btw.

OK Lyle, gotta go for now but that ought to give you some stuff to get your research started, lol. Have fun and don't try to learn it all by the weekend!

Later
Grady

 

[sociopath5.0]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the info and help. I will follow your advice and take things slow at first. Like I said, I'm willing to be patient and learn. The stuff you guys gave me will give me a great starting point. I was worried about getting it running in the first place but it looks like that shouldnt be as big a problem as I had thought.

Thats what I love about this site. The knowledge and the friendly help.

Thanks again brothers,

Lyle

 

[mustanggt94]

Hey guys I've got the same project going as Lyle, except I am running 30# injectors....I am ordering my Tweecer soon (they're on backorder, ) Anyway I was wondering what I need to get as far as Mass air meters go. I'm running a 347 with Victor Jr heads and intake, and 75mm TB, doing 93 style intake BTW....I've heard Pro-M is the best way to go, but they are hard to get since they're out of business.....I figured their 80mm would be best to go with the 75mm TB, what do you guys think? The only place I could find one is from Dallas Mustang and even they says it's 2-4 weeks til delivery! It also says that it's made for ATI pro-charged cars, but I'm running N/A for now....do you think that will matter? If you want to look at it you have to go to www.dallasmustang.com, then search for DM part # 9103. Also, since I don't have the Tweecer yet all this talk about it confuses me with the curves ect...is their a good way to prepare myself for all this? What's the best stuff to read? Thanks!

Danny

 

[WhiteDevil]

Yes, go Pro-M but id be weary of the blower because i think they are a little different andi dont exactly remember why.

 

[mustanggt94]

Isn't it okay to buy a mass air that is not calibrated right as long as you have the tweecer? I have found a good deal on an 80mm Pro-M that's calibrated for 24# injectors but i've got 30#ers....can't you program the tweecer to make it right? Thanks!

 

[bayellowstang]

Isn't it okay to buy a mass air that is not calibrated right as long as you have the tweecer? I have found a good deal on an 80mm Pro-M that's calibrated for 24# injectors but i've got 30#ers....can't you program the tweecer to make it right? Thanks!

Yes you can. If the mass air meter is a blow thru type (for blower/turbo) I don't think it will work right (I can't explain why).

Thanks guys! I appreciate the info and help. I will follow your advice and take things slow at first. Like I said, I'm willing to be patient and learn. The stuff you guys gave me will give me a great starting point. I was worried about getting it running in the first place but it looks like that shouldnt be as big a problem as I had thought.

Thats what I love about this site. The knowledge and the friendly help.

Thanks again brothers,

Lyle

I started off with the ZAO bin on my setup. Its the 95 Cobra-R tune. I tried the j4j1 and the t4mo but the ZAO seemed to work best for me. My car would not idle and ran like crap when first put together. After I put the ZAO bin in it it runs good and idles decent. I don't have the R/T yet so I haven't tried to make any real changes to anything. I'm sending mine back to get it upgraded to the R/T model today.

What type of flow #'s do those heads put out? Maybe we can compare notes sometime if they flow similar to the AFR 185's. Although mine is a 331cid.

 

[WhiteDevil]

can't you program the tweecer to make it right? Thanks!

NO, you cant use a tweecer to reprogram your MAF. You can make a differently programed MAF fit your car by changing the MAF Transfer in the tweecer to match what the MAF is calibrated for but you canot change the Calibration of the MAF with your tweecer. What a MAF is translated for is what it is translated for. got it?

 

[bayellowstang]

NO, you cant use a tweecer to reprogram your MAF. You can make a differently programed MAF fit your car by changing the MAF Transfer in the tweecer to match what the MAF is calibrated for but you canot change the Calibration of the MAF with your tweecer. What a MAF is translated for is what it is translated for. got it?

I thought changing the injector high/low slopes made up for having the wrong MAF. I could be wrong though. I know it doesn't help with size and airflow but if it is calibrated for 24#'s and I have 30#'s that would make it ok.

I don't know for sure though. Just trying to clarify for my own good. I was getting ready to buy injectors without getting the MAF yet. That would suck if I was wrong and either had to go back to the 24#'s or buy a new MAF which I can't talk the wife into letting me buy yet.

 

[mustanggt94]

I was reading through some tutorials and WhiteDevil is right, so you can program the Tweecer to make up for the difference. So you shouldn't have anything to worry about Bayellowstang!

 

[final5-0]

Also, since I don't have the Tweecer yet all this talk about it confuses me with the curves ect...is their a good way to prepare myself for all this? What's the best stuff to read? Thanks!

Danny

Danny

You'll find enough info here http://tweecer.oplnk.net/ to make your head spin, lol.

Focus on the CBAZA strategy (94-95 pcm family) & Cal files T4M0(GT), J4J1(Cobra), & two others which are used on auto trans cars but I don't remember their names. If some of the other guys don't list those two other cal files for you I will tonight when I get to my pc.

So you don't get confused, at first, I would not waste time researching the Fox pms like A9L, etc. Also the threads for 1996 Stangs and up are not going to help you a lot.

Later
Grady

 

[WhiteDevil]

I thought changing the injector high/low slopes made up for having the wrong MAF.

Yeah, thats right you can change the injector slopes to help with miss matching the injectors to a different MAF but whatever the MAF is calibrated for is what it is going to be calibrated for u cant change it?

 

[final5-0]

Danny

You'll find enough info here http://tweecer.oplnk.net/ to make your head spin, lol.

Focus on the CBAZA strategy (94-95 pcm family) & Cal files T4M0(GT), J4J1(Cobra), & two others which are used on auto trans cars but I don't remember their names. If some of the other guys don't list those two other cal files for you I will tonight when I get to my pc.

So you don't get confused, at first, I would not waste time researching the Fox pms like A9L, etc. Also the threads for 1996 Stangs and up are not going to help you a lot.

Later
Grady

Danny

This will help you focus in on the threads & posts that pertain to our cars only. Any other cal files you might see anybody talking about would fall in the 96 and up group of cars.

PCM year dates and strategies and cal files

1988-1993 Mustang = GUFB Strategy = A9L, A3M, A3M1, X3Z, S0Z
1994-1995 Mustang = CBAZA Strategy = T4M0, U4P0, W4H0, J4J1, ZAO

Later
Grady

 

[bayellowstang]

Danny

This will help you focus in on the threads & posts that pertain to our cars only. Any other cal files you might see anybody talking about would fall in the 96 and up group of cars.

PCM year dates and strategies and cal files

1988-1993 Mustang = GUFB Strategy = A9L, A3M, A3M1, X3Z, S0Z
1994-1995 Mustang = CBAZA Strategy = T4M0, U4P0, W4H0, J4J1

Later
Grady

Am I the only one using the ZAO.bin? I don't see anyone here or on the tweecer forums talking about it.

 

[final5-0]

Am I the only one using the ZAO.bin? I don't see anyone here or on the tweecer forums talking about it.

I totally forgot about the 95 Cobra R file, ZAO that you speak about.

I can only speak for myself as far as my thoughts about that cal file.

I looked it over with a keen eye once upon a time but shyed away from it cause its used with the larger Windsor motor and I kinda sorta thought its load values would not work so good with my tiny 302, lol.

Another thing about me not using that file is......way back then the knowledge base of the guys on the sites was not like it is now and load scaling was one of those things that was not understood like today.

The j4j1 was closer to my application and at that time several others were reporting good things about using it with combos similar to mine. I just loaded in my (at the time) stock GT maf curve and 30# inj values and in one quick upload my car went from VERY NASTY drivability to about 85% of the way to stock like drivability.

If the ZAO is working good for you......I'd stick with it

Later
Grady

 

[sociopath5.0]

Grady,
I have been busting my ass at work and have not had the time to get the motor dropped in yet. It will be happening in the next two weeks. Anyhow, I forgot to mention my car has the ProM A9L conversion with the fan controller. I'm pretty sure I can use any bin file as a starting point, correct? For example, I could use the J4J1 file as a base. Is this right, and if so, which file would you recommend for my setup? I can't wait to begin tweecing on this thing!

Thanks again, man!

Lyle

 

[WhiteDevil]

No u cant, you now have an A9L computer in there so u can only use that strategy on your tweecer. THe J4J1 is from a different family CBAZA and wont work with that comp.

 

[final5-0]

No u cant, you now have an A9L computer in there so u can only use that strategy on your tweecer. THe J4J1 is from a different family CBAZA and wont work with that comp.

Like John said

I'd go back to your original pcm and I'll list just a few reasons

1 Faster chip speed

2 Load based is more flexable

3 ACT data will be correct once again

4 Sell the retro fit kit and recoup some of the Tweecer cost

5 Most peeps know more about the fox pcm cause it has been around for so long so the cbaza differences can make things more difficult for them when they try to tune our cars......You on the other hand don't have that kind of thing so just start learning about self tuning on the pcm that is correct for your car

Later
Grady

 

[sociopath5.0]

What are the advantages of the retrofit anyhow? Why change from the J4J1 to the A9L? It seems like its a step backwards.