Twin kit progress pics.

TT91 · Oct 13, 2005

Thats the same size tire I run, turbos are much more friendlier..The track should make them grab nice...but just incase, I have a set of slicks as a backup place.

willys1 · Oct 13, 2005

sirsureshot39 said:
Thats the same size tire I run, turbos are much more friendlier..The track should make them grab nice...but just incase, I have a set of slicks as a backup place.

sounds cool!! If your gonna make the hp I think your gonna make,9's mite be in your future

TT91 · Oct 13, 2005

with that drag radials, as the car sits now, it should run high 10s, maybe low 11s at 129-130ish mph.

With race fuel, and 19-20 psi, the car should run mid 10s, at 140ish. With slicks...9s.

willys1 · Oct 13, 2005

sirsureshot39 said:
with that drag radials, as the car sits now, it should run high 10s, maybe low 11s at 130-134.

With race fuel, and 19-20 psi, the car should run mid 10s, at 140ish. With slicks...9s.

dude,140ish "is" 9's

89white50 · Oct 13, 2005

PS Mike.

I hate you....

, you guys are hilarious. By the way, it's good to see someone gather info, research, know what he's doing, and finally build a beautiful motor. awesome buddy, be proud!

willys1 · Oct 13, 2005

my buddy runs 10.7 at 125-126 in a 69 chevelle

TT91 · Oct 13, 2005

willys1 said:
dude,140ish "is" 9's

I know, Id like to get that MPH in the 10s because If i crank out a 9 sec pass without my cage being certified or a lisence, Ill be asked to leave..

TT91 · Oct 13, 2005

willys1 said:
my buddy runs 10.7 at 125-126 in a 69 chevelle

The old s-trim cranked out 10.51 @ 127 on et streets.

willys1 · Oct 13, 2005

sirsureshot39 said:
I know, Id like to get that MPH in the 10s because If i crank out a 9 sec pass without my cage being certified or a lisence, Ill be asked to leave..

they wont ask you to leave,they wont let you run again!!

willys1 · Oct 13, 2005

I wouldnt pick on you if I seen ya on the NYS thruway

TT91 · Oct 13, 2005

willys1 said:
I wouldnt pick on you if I seen ya on the NYS thruway

Yea I appreciate you taking it easy on me..

...goodnight...

PeteyAce · Oct 13, 2005

mike this might have been brought up before what what rearend you running?

mattkimsey · Oct 13, 2005

sirsureshot39 said:
Groverdills motor made nice hp, but u didnt mention tq. His peak power was made at 5800, where mine was at 4500. You must be new at this if you dont recognize the potential for easy gains. My motor hasnt even begun to wake up yet. By adding 2 psi it went from 495hp/533tq at 4500 rpms to 550hp/590tq at 4500 rpms and carried all the way to 5800. Thats 60 hp for 2 psi. Typically a motor should make 20hp per psi. A single 61mm turbo is good for 680 fwhp(520 rwhp), and my motor has been built to handle 1000hp, but your not going to see that on pump gas with such little cubes. This calls for race fuel and more boost. Groverdills S-trim is almost maxed out at 14psi, on the other hand, at 14 psi, my turbos are have barely began to spin. I can post a compressor map of a 61mm turbo, and if you translate it correctly, you will see that they are most effiecient at 20-25psi. Make sense?
So if they dyno graph im looking at is accurate(which it is), at 20psi, ill be over the 700 rwhp mark, which translates into 900+fwhp. Which is a 9 sec pass.

Yes, I understand that he is limited by the s-trim/block strength, but lets say you have ys-trim capable of 29psi. Could a blower like that give groverdill(using you as an example lol) as much HP as you make on pump gas?

I'm not bashing your setup, just tryin' to figure some things out. The blower route is appeling to me because of the ease of the install and the obvious cost difference. Pump gas TT vs. Pump gas YSblower....can the blower match the HP numbers? To give an example, MMFF put a YS on some guys 5.0 with: forged 302 sportsman, unported trickflow heads, systeMax 2 intake comp 280HR cam, 65mm TB, 77mm MAF and JBA shorty headers. They made 572rwhp(@5957rpm) with less than 10lbs of boost.('03 Tech Guide) Now, if I can make power like this on pump gas with the ease of install, and relatively cheap price tag of a blower@10psi, why should I choose a turbo setup?

TT91 · Oct 14, 2005

mattkimsey said:
Yes, I understand that he is limited by the s-trim/block strength, but lets say you have ys-trim capable of 29psi. Could a blower like that give groverdill(using you as an example lol) as much HP as you make on pump gas?

I'm not bashing your setup, just tryin' to figure some things out. The blower route is appeling to me because of the ease of the install and the obvious cost difference. Pump gas TT vs. Pump gas YSblower....can the blower match the HP numbers? To give an example, MMFF put a YS on some guys 5.0 with: forged 302 sportsman, unported trickflow heads, systeMax 2 intake comp 280HR cam, 65mm TB, 77mm MAF and JBA shorty headers. They made 572rwhp(@5957rpm) with less than 10lbs of boost.('03 Tech Guide) Now, if I can make power like this on pump gas with the ease of install, and relatively cheap price tag of a blower@10psi, why should I choose a turbo setup?

You're too concerned about the overall hp number and not the efficeincy of the motor. Would you rather have a supercharged car make 550 hp at 5800 rpms, or have a turbo car make 550 hp at 4500-6000 rpms. The turbo car would spank the blower car all day long due to the amount of power(Torque gets the car moving) its making so much earlier and so much easier. Blowers are known for their high rpm power output, almost at redline. Turbos are the opposite, they make full boost(whatever you set it at) at much lower rpms and carry the length of the powerband.

And no, you will never see anyone run true pump gas(no meth) with over 19-20 psi. 17 psi whether it comes it comes from a blower or turbo, is still 17 psi. Rule of thumb, pump gas, without pulling out a crap load of timing(which is a bandaid) will have detonation problems above 17 psi. My timing is locked at 25.

TT91 · Oct 14, 2005

PeteyAce said:
mike this might have been brought up before what what rearend you running?

8.8

Daggar · Oct 14, 2005

Please all, pardon me if this has already been said as I've not read through all 10 pages of the thread....

Something worthy of note I think, is that blowers carry significantly more parasitic drive loss than TTs do. An overgenaralized example of the point I'm trying to make is that assuming both power adders are producing the same amount of boost at a given rpm then between 1 to 2 lbs of the boost from the SC will be spent just on the parasitic loss as oppsed to getting the actual wheels. It would be difficult to take discharge air temp into acount for all circumstances considering the differences in impellor effeciency from blower to blower or turbo to turbo but generally, turbos are more effecient in that regard though they also tend to have a more elevated discharge temp due to being exhaust driven. Then there's the whole intercooler aspect to toss in there as well (not as much of a factor when you're talking about pumping out more than 14 psi or so because each would require some sort of inter/after cooling at that point).

So with many of the above variables aside, the bottom line (my point) is that not only is the TT setup going to make power much earlier in the rev range but more of it's energy is spent at making rear wheel power vs. being lost parasitically.

This is all of interest to me because I'm currently (although slowly) working on a similar (engine) setup to sureshots and using a 2.2L Kenne Bell to force the mixture into the motor. I'm anxious to see (given the instant boost aspect of a KB) just what I end up with in usable HP and torque starting from just off idle with a twin screw. I'm hoping to see that the inhearant parasitis loss is going to be largely offset by how quickly the power comes on in the rpm range.

Blk91stang · Oct 14, 2005

sirsureshot39 said:
Typically a motor should make 20hp per psi.

Not to bash you as your car is amazing, but this statement is extremely false. I'm sure I don't have to go into the physics of it but simply put, 14psi on a 100hp motor should yeild approx 200hp total. 14psi on a 600hp big block should yield approx 1200hp total. 100hp gain and 600hp gain from the same psi on two different motors.

88GT17MA · Oct 14, 2005

Turbo boost is not linear to your RPM range as a SC is. On a SC dyno graph you would see the line climb and climb until it reached max power, at the end of your powerband. In a turbo, you could see max power in the middle of your powerband, and watch the line carry straight across until you shift. The curve is very steep with the correct turbo setup and comes on fast almost like a nitrous shot.

Groverdill, details on your combo? nice numbers

mattkimsey · Oct 14, 2005

Yeah, all the centrifigul dyno graphs I see rise like a hill. I imagine this wouldn't be a problem though, on the street, where traction is a big issue.

88GT17MA · Oct 14, 2005

Blk91stang said:
100hp gain and 600hp gain from the same psi on two different motors.

uhhhh whats your point, I should hope that if I was running a small motor with "x" amount of psi and I added that "x" amount to a bigger motor, that the gains would be greater.....

Twin kit progress pics.

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