Very close to buying a 6psi non-ic KB
- Thread starter Kilgore Trout
- Start date
And that is why what you are typing is incorrect through the entire thread. With the intercooler, why would want to increase the PSI when you are already making more power with the intercooler? To add a pulley, you are adding even more power than before. You do not LOOSE power with a intercooler, you loose PSI which does NOT effect your power outputs. It increases them. PSI levels are not a way to determine power levels. It is only used to determine the amount of restriction on the engine. Power levels are not in direct relation to PSI when adding or removing intercoolers. If you want to compare PSI to power levels, you must do it on a even platform. Stay constant with using a intercooler or not. Plus PSI is only a good way to determine power when using the same blower but swapping pullies. You cannot compare PSI to power when referring to different setups which may using a different power adder. That is totally wrong and you cannot use PSI as comparable power indicator. Which is exactly what you are doing.jstreet0204 said:
This thread is not about power outputs on one setup compared to the same setup with an IC. The reason for the IC is the costs, ease of tuning and it gives the owner a good piece of mind that their engine is safer. Like I said, going with Forced Induction without an IC is like ****ing without a rubber. It may cost a little extra but its a hell of a lot better than the consequences.
jstreet0204
Active Member
mogs01gt said:
No what I was typing was not incorrect at all. You said this.
mogs01gt said:
Which is where I pointed out that 9psi through an IC is not the same, because you have to decrease the pulley to maintain that 9psi therefore, 9psi through an intercooler is flowing more. So was it really me who misstated my information?
I know that PSI in not a direct indication of power. But flow is, and on two identical setups, they will go hand in hand. The debate on this was over the KB 1.7L IC'd and non-IC'd. Other setups would of course have different flow characteristics, and therefore the boost pressure would not be relevant.
Also an intercooler DOES NOT increase power . This is directly from the Kenne Bell tuning notes, so you don’t have to take my word on it. Feel free to look it up. It merely allows you to add more timing or run a leaner a/f ratio (both of which adds power) without the increased chance of detonation at the same boost level. Which goes back to the start of this whole debate.
You stated that detonation is not directly related to PSI. Which it is. There are only few things that cause detonation. Excessive cylinder pressure, excessive cylinder temps, eccessive spark advance, and hot spots caused by carbon build up. Now assuming that there isnt a carbon problem, an increase in boost is directly related to the increase in cylinder temps and pressure which will make it more prone to detonation. But as I stated before, there are other ways to decrease the chance of detonation.
hotmustang331
Active Member
Y will probably make around 310RWHP with teh auto.
For a comparison, your car will run about even to mine....with alot more tooling around lowend grunt.
12s fast enough for you? And how can you not even buy a K&N filter in 60K miles?
For a comparison, your car will run about even to mine....with alot more tooling around lowend grunt.
12s fast enough for you? And how can you not even buy a K&N filter in 60K miles?
jstreet0204
Active Member
mogs01gt said:
Choose your context. 9psi is always 9psi as measure of pressure, but that wasn't what you said. You said :
mogs01gt said:
Which makes it not the same because 9psi IC'd contains more air mass in the same volume. When you can grasp the Ideal Gas Law which states that Pressure Volume and Tempature are all proportionate, and when you've actually built and tuned a supercharged car you can tell somebody to go back to school.
I'm done with this debate since it is serves no purpose in helping Kilgore Trout with his decision.
Mogs & jstreet:
I applaud you guys for keeping a mature focus while debating in this thread. Thank you.
You both offered great Tech advice for future readers to consider.
I applaud you guys for keeping a mature focus while debating in this thread. Thank you.
You both offered great Tech advice for future readers to consider.
BennyBlown2v
New Member
Kilgore Trout said:
[Donnie Baker] You should sell those kids man, I sold mine like 7 years ago, I swear to God I did.[/Donnie Baker]
Anyway...I just ordered a Mongoose kit from MPH - thats one way to solve your problem!
USMstang
Member
hognutz
New Member
CENTENNIALSTANG said:
I have never really considered the procharger due to lack of good places to get the car tuned in my area. there are some shops with dyno's but they are more import oriented. I could run my car there to verify but If I did not bring along a pro racer package or something you would be kind of screwed.
the mongoose kits from MPH and KB kit are the choices that caught my eye. all you have to do is find a dyno to just verify tune. if it is off email them the graph of the dyno run and most likely the problem will be solved quickly. If you live in an area with more perfomance shop this not a huge issue.
I have read that some of the prochargers have leaking issues. there are self contained oiling like the KB. I would research that a bit if you are looking. I won't pretend to be an expert on the exact problem I have just seen theads talking about it. I see them in peoples sigs and they make power no doubt about that.
Wow, come on man. When the boost gauge reads 9psi, ITS 9PSI. The intercooler makes NO difference. Lets put it into simple terms.jstreet0204 said:
You have two maps, 1 inch equals 100 miles on mapA and 1 inch equals 75 miles on mapB. Now we know that the 1 inch doest equal 75 or 100 miles but that is what the unit of measurement its scaled to. One inch will always be One inch. The same as 1 or 100 PSI. The gauge reading will always be the same. everything else after that or before that makes no difference. Yes the power outputs could be different but it doesnt change the fact that the gauge read the measurement as 1 or 100psi. It will always be the same. The unit of measurement cannot change, 9psi is always 9psi. Doesnt matter if its intercooled, non intercooled, turbo, KB'ed whatever. 9psi is 9psi. Power can be different.
Now if you want to compare a kit with no pulley at Xpsi, when you install the intercooler you will see a decrease in Xpsi. But the power increases because of the addition of the intercooler(hopefully with a tune). You cannot compare the same kit and say at 10psi intercooled and 10psi non intercooled because the Intercooled kit has more modifications dont to the setup to see the same PSI on the gauge.
jstreet0204
Active Member
mogs01gt said:
We are saying the same thing here just in different ways. 9psi as a measure of pressure is the same regardless. The overall outcome of 9psi of boost that is cooled after the compressor is different than the overall outcome of 9psi of boost that is not cooled after the compressor. The only thing that remains the same is the pressure measurement. If the fuse blows on my IC pump, my blower is no longer Intercooled, and PSI I see on my guage will go up.
300bhp/ton
New Member
There must be somewhere for a tune?? There appears to be hundreds of speed shops in the US.hognutz said:
And a custom tune is always the best no matter which kit, sure if the KB supplied on is ok then roll with it, but if it's out then just get a custom one done. As it all takes time to send info the KB and then wait to get another tune which you then need to go and verify. Plus have you ever seen the list or info that KB require for you to send them?? I think it's on their website.
That aside, Procharger, Vortech and KB all make great units. Ultimatley the centrifugals can make the most PEAK power, but any of the superchargers (including an Eaton) have the ability to go beyond the stock long blocks limit in HP terms.
I'm currently saving for a Procharger for my Z28, but given the choice I would opt for a postive displacement blower (twin screw) such as Kennebell sell.
hognutz
New Member
I live in oregon. I know of some import oriented shops with dyno's in the portland area. now if I wanted to travel to a different state I found them.
unless someone has some input of a place I am unaware of.
*edit*
okay I just checked the sct website and there is now a dealer in the vacover area. this is only a 2.5 hour drive away. this was not a dealer when i started looking. this is the only place that could tune my car with an in house dyno within 5hours of my home.
I am not sure the KB waranty is valid without there tune though.
unless someone has some input of a place I am unaware of.
*edit*
okay I just checked the sct website and there is now a dealer in the vacover area. this is only a 2.5 hour drive away. this was not a dealer when i started looking. this is the only place that could tune my car with an in house dyno within 5hours of my home.
I am not sure the KB waranty is valid without there tune though.
jstreet0204
Active Member
hognutz said:
If you can't find a tuner, you could get an XCAl2 and contact Don 95Vert on this board. I read recently where he was doing some remote dyno tunes over the phone. He can modify the file ad email directly back to you. If you have any questions about his credibility, he wrote the SCT Tuning manual.
hognutz
New Member
jstreet0204 said:
If I went the xcal aproach I would just do the pro racer thing. I am big on doing it myself. you never learn if you don't try. you just end up paying other people to do stuff that I know I can do myself.
with the KB blower you already pay for the tune. so the cheapskate in me wants to take advantage of that.
that lack of ta local tuner kind of pushed me to look at complete kits but in all honesty I do like what the KB brings to the table the best now that I have looke at everyone.
then again I have been looking at them for like 3 years so I have had way to much time to think about it. boob job shot it down the first year, house the second year, new dodge cummins last year. I am buying the damn thing next month for sure though.
jstreet0204
Active Member
hognutz said:
I'm with you on that. I bought the tweecer before SCT came out with their stuff. Now that they include the datalogger with the pro racer package, if I was buying one now, I'd go that route too. But there isn't really a need for me to upgrade since the tweecer covers everything I need it too, just doesn't have the nice interface SCT does.
If you go the KB route, you can have it dynoed, and if anything is off, they will adjust the tune for you. I would really reccomend getting a wideband though just for the peace of mind.
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