And that is why what you are typing is incorrect through the entire thread. With the intercooler, why would want to increase the PSI when you are already making more power with the intercooler? To add a pulley, you are adding even more power than before. You do not LOOSE power with a intercooler, you loose PSI which does NOT effect your power outputs. It increases them. PSI levels are not a way to determine power levels. It is only used to determine the amount of restriction on the engine. Power levels are not in direct relation to PSI when adding or removing intercoolers. If you want to compare PSI to power levels, you must do it on a even platform. Stay constant with using a intercooler or not. Plus PSI is only a good way to determine power when using the same blower but swapping pullies. You cannot compare PSI to power when referring to different setups which may using a different power adder. That is totally wrong and you cannot use PSI as comparable power indicator. Which is exactly what you are doing.jstreet0204 said:Again, that wasn't what I was saying. What I was saying, is that with the same blower, in order to produce the same boost level through an intercooler, as it does without the intercooler, the pulley will have to be smaller, thus flowing more air. And when I am refering to "more air" I am refering to the mass of the air, not the volume.
hognutz said:I am in the middle of deciding this same thing right now.
right now I am going to get the KB IC kit. I have considered the 6psi kit as well though. I figure when you are high roller like I am what is another $1100 really. If I dropped that on the ground I proably would not even bother to pick it up. I mean I have been know to even step up to $10 tables in vegas so money is just not really an object. ha ha
In all seriousness though the 6psi kit is nice but I have a fealing if I buy it I will just wish I had got the intercolled kit.
I am pondering on running the 8psi pulley intercooled to just give my paranoid mind some safty margin. that way if you ever get caught only being able to find 91 octane you are still safe.
I like the KB over the vortech for the main reason I don't want to buy a supercharger and and intake. I also don't ever want to replace my plastic intake if it fails which is likely eventually as I am keeping this car as it is paid for. If I get a new car I will still keep this one as a toy.
mogs01gt said:And that is why what you are typing is incorrect through the entire thread. With the intercooler, why would want to increase the PSI when you are already making more power with the intercooler? To add a pulley, you are adding even more power than before. You do not LOOSE power with a intercooler, you loose PSI which does NOT effect your power outputs. It increases them. PSI levels are not a way to determine power levels. It is only used to determine the amount of restriction on the engine. Power levels are not in direct relation to PSI when adding or removing intercoolers. If you want to compare PSI to power levels, you must do it on a even platform. Stay constant with using a intercooler or not. Plus PSI is only a good way to determine power when using the same blower but swapping pullies. You cannot compare PSI to power when referring to different setups which may using a different power adder. That is totally wrong and you cannot use PSI as comparable power indicator. Which is exactly what you are doing.
mogs01gt said:9psi IC is still the same as 9psi without the IC, doesn't make a difference
9spi is always 9psi, I posted the definition of what PSI is. If you cant understand what a measurement is, you need to go back to school.jstreet0204 said:No what I was typing was not incorrect at all. You said this.
Which is where I pointed out that 9psi through an IC is not the same, because you have to decrease the pulley to maintain that 9psi therefore, 9psi through an intercooler is flowing more. So was it really me who misstated my information?
I know that PSI in not a direct indication of power. But flow is, and on two identical setups, they will go hand in hand. The debate on this was over the KB 1.7L IC'd and non-IC'd. Other setups would of course have different flow characteristics, and therefore the boost pressure would not be relevant.
Also an intercooler DOES NOT increase power . This is directly from the Kenne Bell tuning notes, so you don’t have to take my word on it. Feel free to look it up. It merely allows you to add more timing or run a leaner a/f ratio (both of which adds power) without the increased chance of detonation at the same boost level. Which goes back to the start of this whole debate.
You stated that detonation is not directly related to PSI. Which it is. There are only few things that cause detonation. Excessive cylinder pressure, excessive cylinder temps, eccessive spark advance, and hot spots caused by carbon build up. Now assuming that there isnt a carbon problem, an increase in boost is directly related to the increase in cylinder temps and pressure which will make it more prone to detonation. But as I stated before, there are other ways to decrease the chance of detonation.
mogs01gt said:9spi is always 9psi, I posted the definition of what PSI is. If you cant understand what a measurement is, you need to go back to school.
mogs01gt said:9psi IC is still the same as 9psi without the IC, doesn't make a difference
Kilgore Trout said:Kids are not cheap and I have two.
I'm thinking those guys need to add their educational credentials to their sigs!4u2nv said:Mogs & jstreet:
I applaud you guys for keeping a mature focus while debating in this thread. Thank you.
You both offered great Tech advice for future readers to consider.
CENTENNIALSTANG said:Same here so how good is the Procharger 3 core blower?
Wow, come on man. When the boost gauge reads 9psi, ITS 9PSI. The intercooler makes NO difference. Lets put it into simple terms.jstreet0204 said:Choose your context. 9psi is always 9psi as measure of pressure, but that wasn't what you said. You said :
Which makes it not the same because 9psi IC'd contains more air mass in the same volume. When you can grasp the Ideal Gas Law which states that Pressure Volume and Tempature are all proportionate, and when you've actually built and tuned a supercharged car you can tell somebody to go back to school.
I'm done with this debate since it is serves no purpose in helping Kilgore Trout with his decision.
mogs01gt said:Wow, come on man. When the boost gauge reads 9psi, ITS 9PSI. The intercooler makes NO difference. Lets put it into simple terms.
You have two maps, 1 inch equals 100 miles on mapA and 1 inch equals 75 miles on mapB. Now we know that the 1 inch doest equal 75 or 100 miles but that is what the unit of measurement its scaled to. One inch will always be One inch. The same as 1 or 100 PSI. The gauge reading will always be the same. everything else after that or before that makes no difference. Yes the power outputs could be different but it doesnt change the fact that the gauge read the measurement as 1 or 100psi. It will always be the same. The unit of measurement cannot change, 9psi is always 9psi. Doesnt matter if its intercooled, non intercooled, turbo, KB'ed whatever. 9psi is 9psi. Power can be different.
There must be somewhere for a tune?? There appears to be hundreds of speed shops in the US.hognutz said:I have never really considered the procharger due to lack of good places to get the car tuned in my area.
hognutz said:I live in oregon. I know of some import oriented shops with dyno's in the portland area. now if I wanted to travel to a different state I found them.
unless someone has some input of a place I am unaware of.
*edit*
okay I just checked the sct website and there is now a dealer in the vacover area. this is only a 2.5 hour drive away. this was not a dealer when i started looking. this is the only place that could tune my car with an in house dyno within 5hours of my home.
I am not sure the KB waranty is valid without there tune though.
jstreet0204 said:If you can't find a tuner, you could get an XCAl2 and contact Don 95Vert on this board. I read recently where he was doing some remote dyno tunes over the phone. He can modify the file ad email directly back to you. If you have any questions about his credibility, he wrote the SCT Tuning manual.
hognutz said:If I went the xcal aproach I would just do the pro racer thing. I am big on doing it myself. you never learn if you don't try. you just end up paying other people to do stuff that I know I can do myself.
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