I know this question has been asked before but here is my situation. I have an 04 GT auto with 4.10s, CAI, Magnaflow catback and Diablosport tuner. The car runs good but I'd like to make it a faster street machine with no real plans for the track. Supercharging seems the way to go but I really can't spend much more than $4000. At about $4200 for the Kenne Bell non I/C (incl tax. I live in SoCal), I could swing it. Can't consider the intercooled kit at $5400. I could get the Vortech V-3 kit for about $3700 delivered to my door. Seems like meth injection can be added to increase boost for the Vortech. I really like the Kenne Bell but am wary of high IAT's and heat soak with the non I/C kit. Plus I'm wondering if my gears are too steep for a PD blower. BTW, the car isn't a DD. Anyway, haven't driven either blower but did have a turbo eclipse long ago that was fun. Which one should I get?
Vortech or Kenne Bell
- Thread starter ndiguy
- Start date
Vortech and meth with your budget. Meth does not increase boost itself. It cools down your IAT's, allowing you to get more aggressive with the tune. You might even get away with a smaller pulley, which will increase boost. I gained 50rwhp and 70rwtq with meth alone on my V3.
You can use meth on either setup and with or without an intercooler.
Were it me, there's little chance I'd ad either power adder without an inter/after cooler.
Were it me, there's little chance I'd ad either power adder without an inter/after cooler.
I know that meth injection can be used with roots and twin screw blowers but it seems people have more problems with that setup than with a centrifugal. If IAT's are the problem then inter/after coolers are probably the best way to solve them. Meth injection should do the same as long as the juice keeps flowing. I like the Kenne Bell but the non I/C kit with factory tune is set up at 5 psi and 18* timing. I figure that to be about 80 rwhp. Safe for 91 octane according to K. Bell. The intercooled kit is out of the question for now. Just ask my wife.
Don't tell your wife. Mine has been in the shop for "minor repairs" due to a mechanical error for over 2 months. Still have another 6 weeks to go.
I wouldn't bother with vortechs aftercooler kit. Use somebody elses intercooler if you go that route. I'd get a standard vortech kit, and have it dyno tuned. Keep the boost at 6 psi, spray some meth and make more power. Add the intercooler when you have the funds.
I wouldn't bother with vortechs aftercooler kit. Use somebody elses intercooler if you go that route. I'd get a standard vortech kit, and have it dyno tuned. Keep the boost at 6 psi, spray some meth and make more power. Add the intercooler when you have the funds.
trinity_gt
10 Year Member
I like my KB but I'm sure if I had a Vortech I'd like that too. You can't go wrong with either.
I would save a bit longer and splurge for the intercooled option. I know you can technically run non-intercooled but on a stock shortblock it's nice insurance to help keep IATs under control and to have the margin to up the boost later -- which you will want to do.
Winters has the right idea: The Vortech is an easier kit to which to add an intercooler later. The integration of the intercooler in the KB kit packaging means you sort of have to make that decision up front and are stuck with it thereafter.
One thing to keep in mind: Living in SoCal means you are going to want to go with a full kit with the all-important CARB exemption number or you'll be having registration issues out the wazoo...
I would save a bit longer and splurge for the intercooled option. I know you can technically run non-intercooled but on a stock shortblock it's nice insurance to help keep IATs under control and to have the margin to up the boost later -- which you will want to do.
Winters has the right idea: The Vortech is an easier kit to which to add an intercooler later. The integration of the intercooler in the KB kit packaging means you sort of have to make that decision up front and are stuck with it thereafter.
One thing to keep in mind: Living in SoCal means you are going to want to go with a full kit with the all-important CARB exemption number or you'll be having registration issues out the wazoo...
joshjwc9
Active Member
As long as you have a good tune and don't beat on it during hot summer days you will be fine. A cheaper and better option than going with the Vortech aftercooler is the Paxton Air to Air setup. Or piece together a CX Racing setup. The only downside is you will have to change MAF, and get a different tune since the MAF would have to be located in a different location.
The CARB exemption is a good point which unfortunately makes it difficult to go with an aftermarket intercooler in California. I thought about having two tunes, one with meth and one without. When it's time for smog check, just pull the meth kit and install a different tune. A lot easier than pulling an intercooler without CARB cert. I don't know how thoroughly the smog people look at those setups. One of the things that concerns me about the KB is the 4.10s in my car. Some say that 4.10s are too steep for a PD blower. Don't really want to swap gears at this point.
joshjwc9
Active Member
Ah, my reading comprehension beats me again. I would definitely think about a flipchip from SCT after it is tuned with a high quality meth kit then.
The Vortech Aftercooler is just very inefficient. And the CX Racing intercooler kit is cheaper and more efficient too. Although I live in FL my car suffers some since it is non intercooled as well, but I just don't stay in boost all day driving it and with a stock pulley still hitting 7-9lbs with stock motor, in the hot summer humidity. Although it does hit 10lbs in cooler weather too..
The Vortech Aftercooler is just very inefficient. And the CX Racing intercooler kit is cheaper and more efficient too. Although I live in FL my car suffers some since it is non intercooled as well, but I just don't stay in boost all day driving it and with a stock pulley still hitting 7-9lbs with stock motor, in the hot summer humidity. Although it does hit 10lbs in cooler weather too..
In reference to the heat soak issue above:
I just wanted to clear a couple misconceptions...
Centri blowers produce a higher blower outlet temp then virtually ANY twin screw.
Twins screws don't heat soak intakes. Hot intakes heat soak twin screw manifolds.
If you're going sans aftercooler, then a PD blower is where it's at.
If you're able to afford an aftercooler for a centri system then that's where I would go.
On a modular motor, if you ARE able to afford the aftercooler under a PD then I would go that direction.
I agree that retro-fitting an aftercooler to a PD blower after the fact can be expensive and sometimes problematic.
It is def easier to pipe one into a centri blower after the fact and cheaper at the beginning.
All that said, and budget being the central issue, I think your best bet would be a quality centri setup... with after cooler (ATI with air to air) would be my pick.
I just wanted to clear a couple misconceptions...
Centri blowers produce a higher blower outlet temp then virtually ANY twin screw.
Twins screws don't heat soak intakes. Hot intakes heat soak twin screw manifolds.
If you're going sans aftercooler, then a PD blower is where it's at.
If you're able to afford an aftercooler for a centri system then that's where I would go.
On a modular motor, if you ARE able to afford the aftercooler under a PD then I would go that direction.
I agree that retro-fitting an aftercooler to a PD blower after the fact can be expensive and sometimes problematic.
It is def easier to pipe one into a centri blower after the fact and cheaper at the beginning.
All that said, and budget being the central issue, I think your best bet would be a quality centri setup... with after cooler (ATI with air to air) would be my pick.
Correct. Heat is less of an issue with a non-intercooled KB vs. a non-intercooled Vortech because the blower discharge temps are lower with the KB.
However... (comma) Like said above. It's considerably easier and less expensive to add an intercooler to a Vortech kit, down the road.
However... (comma) Like said above. It's considerably easier and less expensive to add an intercooler to a Vortech kit, down the road.
I don't know if you get and keep Modified Mustangs Magazine, but the September 2008 issue has an article about blower myths. The article is actually part 3 of a multi-issue article. Worth checking out if you have them or know someone who does.
joshjwc9
Active Member
I pieced my kit together so I had mine dyno tuned here at a local shop. My tuner adjusted for my 3.73's and my request to keep traction control off when he just flashed my ecu. I have a 140k mile stock motor with enough fuel to be safe till the limits of the motor are reached. I am more than happy with my power output. I might add an intercooler when I build a motor for this but for my stock motor I wouldn't want to risk blowing up my DD to get higher than the 380rwhp/378tq I am at.
I'm sure that it's not what you meant with this post but it read a little odd and wanted to just add something:
Adding an intercooler would not make your setup more likely to grenade. Just the opposite. Intake heat is reduced (of course), so timing can be increased (of course), and if the correct balance is truck then there's no detonation. You'd also be able to run a leaner fuel curve. If anything, the addition of an intercooler makes for WIDER tuning window where the lack thereof means a narrower window where more attention has to be paid to ensure no detonation.
In your case Josh... add the intercooler when you're able. Your motor will thank you. So will your fuel bill.
Flghtmstr1
Member
Why not look into the Tork Tech kit with a used Eaton M112 off a Terminator? Cheap, intercooled, and will make more power than the options you're looking at.
