Wake up the auto

alright a few questions here. what differnce will this make from a roll of say 50 mph? also, someone said the higher the stall the more rpms are need to get moving. does this mean that say its a 3400 stall, you have to rev to 3400 rpms to even get the car to roll foward/it stays stationary at idle? -matt

godsmak53190 said:

alright a few questions here. what differnce will this make from a roll of say 50 mph? also, someone said the higher the stall the more rpms are need to get moving. does this mean that say its a 3400 stall, you have to rev to 3400 rpms to even get the car to roll foward/it stays stationary at idle? -matt

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As for the "from a roll" deal, a torque converter will only help so much there. Torque converters are best from a launch that a moving roll. Gears on the other hand will help out in any gear and at any rpms as it allows you to accelerate through each gear quicker.

The stock stall speed is about 1600-1800 stall. Tell me something. Do you need to rev up to 1600-1800 rpms to get moving with it ? Of course not. Just because you go to a higher stall speed doesnt mean you have to rev to that number to get moving. The stall speed has to do with max rpm for torque multiplication. The closer to your torque curve the stall speed is, the better your performance will be. I have a 3k stall and I admit, I have to give it a few more revs to get moving at the same speeds, but you get used to it and its not that bad. It should be noted that around town you will lose a little in gas mileage but not too badly.

Dark Knight GT said:

As for the "from a roll" deal, a torque converter will only help so much there. Torque converters are best from a launch that a moving roll. Gears on the other hand will help out in any gear and at any rpms as it allows you to accelerate through each gear quicker.

The stock stall speed is about 1600-1800 stall. Tell me something. Do you need to rev up to 1600-1800 rpms to get moving with it ? Of course not. Just because you go to a higher stall speed doesnt mean you have to rev to that number to get moving. The stall speed has to do with max rpm for torque multiplication. The closer to your torque curve the stall speed is, the better your performance will be. I have a 3k stall and I admit, I have to give it a few more revs to get moving at the same speeds, but you get used to it and its not that bad. It should be noted that around town you will lose a little in gas mileage but not too badly.

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thanks man your the first one whose been able to break it down for me i have my 4.30s sitting next to me but im waiting to get my car back from the body shop im still mentally debating wheather to save the a t.c or start on an exhaust. on one hand ill get better performance outta the tc. but what the hell is a mustang w/o exhuast

godsmak53190 said:

thanks man your the first one whose been able to break it down for me i have my 4.30s sitting next to me but im waiting to get my car back from the body shop im still mentally debating wheather to save the a t.c or start on an exhaust. on one hand ill get better performance outta the tc. but what the hell is a mustang w/o exhuast

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You should love the 4.30 gears. I got some of those setting in my living room along with the mods I have in my "to come" section of my signature.

As for the torque converter vs. the exhuast mods, thats a tough one. We all like loud exhuast and the power exhuast gives but that torque converter would be an "unseen weapon" in your arsenal and would really make that automatic kill the five speeds and in a big way. I say save up your money and buy both. Just my .02 cents.

Dark Knight GT said:

You should love the 4.30 gears. I got some of those setting in my living room along with the mods I have in my "to come" section of my signature.

As for the torque converter vs. the exhuast mods, thats a tough one. We all like loud exhuast and the power exhuast gives but that torque converter would be an "unseen weapon" in your arsenal and would really make that automatic kill the five speeds and in a big way. I say save up your money and buy both. Just my .02 cents.

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right now as my car sits, the best ive gotten was a 14.40 with like a 2.3 '60. with the 4.30 and 3600 stall and k&n what kinda 60s and 1/4 do you think i could hit.

godsmak53190 said:

right now as my car sits, the best ive gotten was a 14.40 with like a 2.3 '60. with the 4.30 and 3600 stall and k&n what kinda 60s and 1/4 do you think i could hit.

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I dont exactly know how much it will do for you but I've seen guys who've shed a full second and more off their 1/4 mile times by using 4.10 gears, shift kit, torque converter, trans cooler, and good tune. I personally will be shooting for 12's n/a in the 1/4 mile with just bolt-ons.

Dark Knight GT said:

I dont exactly know how much it will do for you but I've seen guys who've shed a full second and more off their 1/4 mile times by using 4.10 gears, shift kit, torque converter, trans cooler, and good tune. I personally will be shooting for 12's n/a in the 1/4 mile with just bolt-ons.

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we have similar goals .after that i gotta find a way to keep the ls1s behind me after those first 12 seconds. question- why is it that a stock 5-speed/geared *good driver* would lose to an auto w/just a 3000+ stall, jerry mod, trans cooler, and gear?

godsmak53190 said:

we have similar goals .after that i gotta find a way to keep the ls1s behind me after those first 12 seconds. question- why is it that a stock 5-speed/geared *good driver* would lose to an auto w/just a 3000+ stall, jerry mod, trans cooler, and gear?

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When you get your 4.30 gears in your car, I want you to take it for a spin and tell me if you think any five speed can beat you.

Seriously though, it comes down to speed and consistency. The main number 1 reason why the 5 speeds are faster than autos has to do with rear wheel power. Because the auto tranny is heavier than the five speed, the five speed gets more power to the rear wheels. That, and with a five speed, you can hold in the clutch, rev, and dump the clutch at whatever rpm you'de like. This is where the torque converter comes in hand at. It sort of does this for you and helps to put you on part with the five speed. The gears will allow for faster acceleration to more than make up for the difference in power and the shift kit will nail the shifts faster like a five speed shift. Only thing is a no one can beat a computer at shifting consistently. NO ONE.

Gears especially 4.30's are said to help at least 3 tenths. That would give you at least a 14.10 or 14.0. TQ added another 3 tenths -13.7 -13.5? ( With Stickies). I had a 4spd stick, 396 -325hp, stock except 360hp Stock Vette Cam, P&P heads (Oval port lower performance) and cast manifold and 3.73's in a 65 Chevelle. It weighing about the same and probably 300hp at the wheels. (They do rate them different now). With slicks and headers it did a 13.12.

So at say 40hp less, that is about 4 tenths difference, the above 13.5 for would be a given. I'd say because of the 5spd, more efficient Electronics and Fuel injection it may be 13.2 even.

Found this on http://www.racenet.net and http://www.converter.com

"The standard performance gain reported is 2 tenths on 60 foot times and up to 3/4 of a second on overall elapsed times in the 1/4 mile. The torque multiplication on the 9 1/2-inch series is 2.53 to 1 compared to stock at 1.93 to 1. The torque multiplication of the converter will deliver an increase of up to 50 horsepower to the rear wheels."

Are those normal gains? On average how much power increase would we get? I want to make sure this is a worth while mod before I drop almost 1k on it. Thanks guys.

bump

i dont see a torque converter listed on houstonperformance.com anywya where is the best one to get. how does a 3600 stall sound on a d.d w/4.30s

I dont see a 50h/p gain from a bolt on car, but possibly on a high h/p supercharged/turbo car you would. Ide have to guess more along the lines on 10-15h/p gain.

This is only because the PI convertor weighs much less then a factory convertor, therefor theres much less rotational mass, which equals more usuable power. Same effect on using lighter weight wheels, driveshaft, axles, flywheels, ect

Jeez, you guys have me wanting a converter now.

I ran my car again last night... was running 14.9's all night, very consistent but nowhere near my best time.

I really need that trans cooler.

Well, here's my advice....

Do the Jerry mod, and while you're in your tranny, go ahead and install a 3,000 converter (at least). Make sure to get a PLATE style cooler, and Amsoil synthetic tranny fluid can help it to perform to its full potential, and keep it cool Do it once, do it right.

Also, get nothing less than 4.10's in a n/a car. They won't hurt MPG's much at all, I pulled 22+ MPG's with em, in a FULL bolt on car.

To get all that power to the ground, its gonna be necessary that you get a worthy suspension. I'd suggest some good S/F's, and Upper/Lower Control Arms. You can always unbolt your front sway bar at the track for extra weight transfer (I just took my front sway bar off, but alot of people don't like the way it feels in the corners).

If you want anything along the lines of a CAI, etc... here's my .02

Get a Steeda CAI, or K&N FIPK, they don't have a bend before the MAF, AND they have heat shields around teh filters, therefore, they are both good choices. I'd avoid any sort of aftermarket MAF, seeing as how the stock one is good to 300 RWHPish. A Pro-M wouldn't be needed until big HP gains, and a C&L wouldn't be much (if any) better than an FIPK. Get a TB and plenum. Don't go bigger than a 70mm TB, because a stock car doesn't need that much air, 75mm TB have actually slowed down mostly stock (just bolt on) cars. I lost 1.5 tenths with my 75mm TB as compared to stock when I just had mufflers, CAI, and 3.73's. Plenums, well that is up to you. They are all quality, and they all offer roughly the same gains.

Exhaust, well, there are about a bajillion options here. If you get headers, go L/T. I have FRPP shorties, and I wish I had waited until someone came out with L/T's for the 4R-70W cars. An H-pipe should be good for more low end torque, and sound better with chambered muffler. And X-pipe will be good for a few more ponies up top, and sounds best with a straight through style muffler.

Well, thats the basics as TARZAN sees em.

We could always go into weight reduction, but thats another thread

-Will

godsmak53190 said:

i dont see a torque converter listed on houstonperformance.com anywya where is the best one to get. how does a 3600 stall sound on a d.d w/4.30s

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I'm not sure what my stall is to be honest (I bought it, then later found out that it was stolen )...

But I either have a 3,000 or 3,200 stall, and 4.30's. Drive the car everyday. I even have a modified 4R-70w that shifts like Oakland during and earthquake.....

You could do it just fine. You'll just need to make sure that you get a decent sized PLATE style cooler ( I have a fin style and regret it), and I'd suggest some synthetic tranny fluid to help keep it cool

If you're nice to the car, you shouldn't have any problems, you could get 20+ MPG's, and come outta the hole like a raped ape

-Will

TARZAN said:

I'm not sure what my stall is to be honest (I bought it, then later found out that it was stolen )...

But I either have a 3,000 or 3,200 stall, and 4.30's. Drive the car everyday. I even have a modified 4R-70w that shifts like Oakland during and earthquake.....

You could do it just fine. You'll just need to make sure that you get a decent sized PLATE style cooler ( I have a fin style and regret it), and I'd suggest some synthetic tranny fluid to help keep it cool

If you're nice to the car, you shouldn't have any problems, you could get 20+ MPG's, and come outta the hole like a raped ape

-Will

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what kinda times are you runnin. if ya havent tracked yet, how do you fair against stis, and evo8s. would a 4.30/3600 stall and sticky tires be good to run w/those awd turbo cars from a dead stop?

Personally (if you can drive) you should be able to rape them . I cut 1.9 short times on $78 Kumho Ecsta 711's

I think 3600 may be a lil much for a street car, but not necessarily. just make SURE that you get good synthetic fluid (Amsoil) and a dependable plate style cooler .

If you can't drive though, they're gonna kill you outta the hole, you have those sticky tires on, and you're gonna LEAVE em

-Will

godsmak53190 said:

i dont see a torque converter listed on houstonperformance.com anywya where is the best one to get. how does a 3600 stall sound on a d.d w/4.30s

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You have to call them. Its not listed on the page. They carry to much chit lol. Yes, a 3600 stall w/ 4.30's would be a bad azz combination.