Watch out Europe... here comes the new 5.0 (M3 vs 5.0)

[Kurt_OH]

I asked my wife the other day, "honey, do you know why the dual zone computerized climate control system in our Mustang will never break?"
"Why"
"Because it doesn't have one"...

I've owned lots of Benz's and 2 Beemers. After the warranty runs out you better have the money for the repair bills.
No question, the little details and quality of the German machines are better, but 1.) You pay for it in the beginning and 2.) You pay for the 60-way adjustable seat motor when it fails...

Makes sense. If a car costs 2x to buy, it's probably 2x for whatever part fails too, and could be 2x to have it put in as well.

But, if MONEY was the reason to select one car over another, I'd buy a 17 year old POS for $1k and drive it until it stopped, then go get another one. There is NEVER a way to justify ANY new vehicle on the basis of cost of ownership. Once you're accepted that it's fiscally idiotic to buy a new car, now we're down to how much "luxury" or "excess" or "indulgence" or "waste" we're ready for.

 

[GusinCA]

Nah, I want a safe, modern car as well. An old POS isn't going to do that for me.
But you are correct, the smart financial decision is to buy one that's 1 or 2 years old. Let the guy who bought it new take that initial depreciation hit.

 

[mustangford289]

read this

2011 BMW M3 Coupe vs. 2011 Ford Mustang GT Comparison - Motor Trend

 

[brycerichert]

I asked my wife the other day, "honey, do you know why the dual zone computerized climate control system in our Mustang will never break?"
"Why"
"Because it doesn't have one"...

I've owned lots of Benz's and 2 Beemers. After the warranty runs out you better have the money for the repair bills.
No question, the little details and quality of the German machines are better, but 1.) You pay for it in the beginning and 2.) You pay for the 60-way adjustable seat motor when it fails...

As the other poster mentioned, if money was a variable, nobody would ever buy a new car... it's the worst decision one could ever make. So really, it's just as stupid to buy a new car with no options than a new car with EVERY option... they are both stupid financial moves. I choose the latter.. if I'm going to waste my money, I'm going to have fun doing it AND have a warm ass.

 

[Kurt_OH]

As the other poster mentioned, if money was a variable, nobody would ever buy a new car... it's the worst decision one could ever make. So really, it's just as stupid to buy a new car with no options than a new car with EVERY option... they are both stupid financial moves. I choose the latter.. if I'm going to waste my money, I'm going to have fun doing it AND have a warm ass.

 

[jaybertx]

As the other poster mentioned, if money was a variable, nobody would ever buy a new car... it's the worst decision one could ever make. So really, it's just as stupid to buy a new car with no options than a new car with EVERY option... they are both stupid financial moves. I choose the latter.. if I'm going to waste my money, I'm going to have fun doing it AND have a warm ass.

I agree. I am currently looking at a V6 Premium with the performance package, electronics package and backup cam and it comes out to right around $32k. People look at me like I'm crazy because I could afford a GT Premium in that ballpark but the residual cost of insurance (I have two 16 year old sons) and gas (my commute is ~90 miles per day) rules a GT out for now... Once I get these boys off to college it'll be a different story.

 

[fiveohwblow]

Nah, I want a safe, modern car as well. An old POS isn't going to do that for me.
But you are correct, the smart financial decision is to buy one that's 1 or 2 years old. Let the guy who bought it new take that initial depreciation hit.

Not to mention tomorrows car makes yesterdays refinements and safety "lacking"

I wouldnt have been driving a car in 1995 saying to myself, "gee, hope I dont wreck I am SURE to die." The safety from the early 90's up in the German cars wasnt emulated in American Auto until the early 2000's. Just because they are older, doesn't mean they can be deemed unsafe.

 

[stangdude2000]

if I'm going to waste my money, I'm going to have fun doing it AND have a warm ass.

 

[Kurt_OH]

The safety from the early 90's up in the German cars wasnt emulated in American Auto until the early 2000's.

I'm not sure the Germans aren't still significantly ahead in safety.

Examples from 335i, just regarding braking:

- if you're driving along at a steady throttle opening and suddenly completely let off the throttle, the brakes automatically pre-tighten to remove all slack from the system so that if you next put your foot on the brake, it will respond immediately to begin slowing you down. If you do then apply a lot of brake pressure, the brakes will automatically maximize braking force.

- when the brakes get wet, they sense the moisture and occasionally slightly tighten to warm/dry the rotors to maintain max braking capability.

- if you press the brakes a "normal" amount, the brake lights light up the "normal" amount. If you apply max braking, additional brake lights light up to differentiate the amount of force and maximize visibility to following vehicles.

- if you repeatedly apply the brakes to the extent that the brakes begin to fade, the braking system will detect this and automatically increase the amount of force on the brakes so that the same force from your foot results in the same deceleration of the vehicle even though additional brake fluid pressure is required to achieve that same deceleration.


We haven't even gotten into the design of the body/frame, use of high strength steel, use of high quality glass, design of active and passive restraint systems or the shape/design of interior and exterior so as to maximize protection of occupants.

 

[brycerichert]

I'm not sure the Germans aren't still significantly ahead in safety.

Examples from 335i, just regarding braking:

- if you're driving along at a steady throttle opening and suddenly completely let off the throttle, the brakes automatically pre-tighten to remove all slack from the system so that if you next put your foot on the brake, it will respond immediately to begin slowing you down. If you do then apply a lot of brake pressure, the brakes will automatically maximize braking force.

- when the brakes get wet, they sense the moisture and occasionally slightly tighten to warm/dry the rotors to maintain max braking capability.

- if you press the brakes a "normal" amount, the brake lights light up the "normal" amount. If you apply max braking, additional brake lights light up to differentiate the amount of force and maximize visibility to following vehicles.

- if you repeatedly apply the brakes to the extent that the brakes begin to fade, the braking system will detect this and automatically increase the amount of force on the brakes so that the same force from your foot results in the same deceleration of the vehicle even though additional brake fluid pressure is required to achieve that same deceleration.


We haven't even gotten into the design of the body/frame, use of high strength steel, use of high quality glass, design of active and passive restraint systems or the shape/design of interior and exterior so as to maximize protection of occupants.

They are waaaay ahead.. no doubt about it. Just their crumple zone research alone would do us in. But then, I'm not driving to crash, right?

 

[GT Premi]

I'm amazed at the praises being given to 3-series BMWs (M3 included) with regards to comfort and refinement. I've had enough seat time in them to beg to differ; especially when it comes to the 335i Sport! The thing is noisy as heck at highway speeds. And I'm one of the fortunate ones to own a BMW and a Mustang, except in my case, it's a 550i Sport and the GT500 ('08 & '11, respectively.) I don't think anyone will dispute the 5-series has a way better interior than a 3-series. That said, when I drive my GT500, I'm never wishing I had driven the 550i instead. (Not unless I get caught in the rain! ) Anyway, quality of materials and fit and finish of the '10+ Mustangs w/ Premium package is right on par w/ BMWs, especially the 3-series. I think some of you are confusing design and layout with quality. Turn off the fanboyism for a while and look with subjective eyes. As far as amenities, the 3-series doesn't have that much above and beyond a Mustang, i.e. auto dimminv mirrors, auto headlights, dual climate, HIDs, heated seats, etc. Safety-wise, the +10 Mustang got 5-star ratings in all crash metrics from the NHTSA, and Good and Acceptable from IIHS. There goes that argument.

And tell me this, how often does a BMW make you want to go drive it "just because" at any hour of the day or night? I've had my 550i for 3 years and not once have I just wanted to drive it with no destination in mind. About the only times I drive it like that is because I'm just sick of being in the house and it was my only mode of transport. Oh, and on the comfort thing, I have the 20-way comfort seats and in 3 years I've yet to find a truly comfortable position. And driving dynamics is no comparison. My 550i feels cumbersome and piggish after my GT500. The only thing I'll miss about it are the heated seats (not offered on the GT500) and the angel eyebrows. SYNC blows iDrive away all day everyday, including the new, revised iDrive. And now the MyFord Touch is coming out! :-O

Anyway, enough of my rant...

 

[mjk]

I'm amazed at the praises being given to 3-series BMWs (M3 included) with regards to comfort and refinement. I've had enough seat time in them to beg to differ; especially when it comes to the 335i Sport! The thing is noisy as heck at highway speeds. And I'm one of the fortunate ones to own a BMW and a Mustang, except in my case, it's a 550i Sport and the GT500 ('08 & '11, respectively.) I don't think anyone will dispute the 5-series has a way better interior than a 3-series. That said, when I drive my GT500, I'm never wishing I had driven the 550i instead. (Not unless I get caught in the rain! ) Anyway, quality of materials and fit and finish of the '10+ Mustangs w/ Premium package is right on par w/ BMWs, especially the 3-series. I think some of you are confusing design and layout with quality. Turn off the fanboyism for a while and look with subjective eyes. As far as amenities, the 3-series doesn't have that much above and beyond a Mustang, i.e. auto dimminv mirrors, auto headlights, dual climate, HIDs, heated seats, etc. Safety-wise, the +10 Mustang got 5-star ratings in all crash metrics from the NHTSA, and Good and Acceptable from IIHS. There goes that argument.

And tell me this, how often does a BMW make you want to go drive it "just because" at any hour of the day or night? I've had my 550i for 3 years and not once have I just wanted to drive it with no destination in mind. About the only times I drive it like that is because I'm just sick of being in the house and it was my only mode of transport. Oh, and on the comfort thing, I have the 20-way comfort seats and in 3 years I've yet to find a truly comfortable position. And driving dynamics is no comparison. My 550i feels cumbersome and piggish after my GT500. The only thing I'll miss about it are the heated seats (not offered on the GT500) and the angel eyebrows. SYNC blows iDrive away all day everyday, including the new, revised iDrive. And now the MyFord Touch is coming out! :-O

Anyway, enough of my rant...

well put. I drive the stang just to drive it all the time. I don't consider myself a fanboi as it is my first mustang and my 6th car...

 

[stangdude2000]

My dad has a 2010 550, and one of my close friends has a 2008 550. Both like my M3 better than their cars. There is a huge difference between the purpose of the 550 vs M3. But the 550i is just meant to be a grocery getter sedan with a bit of extra sport worked in over the 535i. The M3 is built to be a sports car, and was built for the track. The M3 also runs circles around the 550, performance-wise. That being said, the 550i will feel obviously pigish compared to the GT500, too - its a 4000 lb sedan with 360 horsepower. It's pretty difficult to bring a 550i into the conversation and use that as the comparing item to a discussion of M3 vs. 2011 GT. It would be as if I was trying to use the Taurus SHO in place of the GT to compare to the M3.

I have to disagree with you, GT Premi, on the quality of materials and fit and finish. The fit and finish is close, but the quality of materials still isn't on par. Additionally, the M3 is WAY quieter than any Mustang of any generation - v6 or GT. According to R&T, GT is 73 dB interior noise at 70 mph versus the M3's 70 dB. The 335 is 60.3 dB according to edmunds. That means the GT is more than two times as loud as the 335i (dB scale is logarithmic). As far as comfort, that is just completely a personal preference thing. I find the M3 and 5-series seats extremely comfortable - I've done an 11 hour drive in the M3 without getting tired of sitting. Can't say I ever made it past 3 hours in the GT without needing to take a break.

When I had my GT, I constantly found myself wanting to drive something nicer. Since I've had my M3, I've never wished I was driving my old Mustang instead. I also definitely find myself driving the M3 just to drive all the time. You very well may still like your GT500 better, but I think you'd be making your points a lot differently if you had an M5 or an M3 in place of your 550i.

 

[GT Premi]

The point I was trying to make with the 550i Sport was with regards to comfort, fit & finish, and quality of materials, not the performance aspect. Maybe that came off wrong. Another point I was trying to make in bringing the 5-series in was that it has better goods inside than a 3-series (M3 included) and from my perspective after living with my 550i for 3 years is that the Mustang is definitely at least equal to the 3-series if not better. With respect to the 550i Sport vs. the M5 when it comes to handling, tests show it would more than likely be a wash on a tighter course. The 550i Sport doesn't have the adjustable suspension like the M5, so it's basically in "M" mode all the time. That's not necessarily a good thing. And to be honest, after driving an M3 with the dynamic suspension, my 550i Sport actually felt more stiff and harsh.

You can't really factor in dB levels here. You need to remember that the Mustang GT is tuned to be heard by the driver and passengers; you know, that loud V8 and all. Put a sissy muffler/exhaust on the Mustang and I would pretty much guarantee that it would be just as quiet as an M3.

One final point; when you're looking at "quality of materials," it's not just about the leather on the seats. It's the whole package. I'll admit the BMWs have slightly better leather, but overall the quality of materials with the '10+ Mustangs (w/ Premium package) is pretty much on par with each other. (And don't even get me started on that nasty "leatherette" BMW uses as it's standard seat material!)

 

[zeotide]

The only thing I can say nice about BMW was their service was good. Well practiced, too, as I got very familiar with the people. Friendly, professional, and extremely busy people. Hell I was in there every month. Eleven times in the last 18 months of ownership, in fact. The car was literally falling apart. It was a challenge to get it decent enough to trade off before something new would brake.

I am a RWD with MT type and that leaves me pretty much with BMWs, pony cars, and corvette as my options. I can't make myself like corvettes. I keep looking at them but they don't interest me at all. BMWs, I've been tempted. But I don't like that I don't see many older ones in the 8-12ish age range in daily service. The expense of servicing them as they get older concerns me.

What I like about mustangs is that not only are they durable they are inexpensive to keep forever. My 1997 GT just turned over 193K miles. It turns 14 in December. I could not justify the expense of redoing the suspension on a BMW, but did it on my mustang last summer. (all those years and miles in chicago's climate take their toll on rubber bushings, and while serviceable I found the ride quality and occasional squeaks annoying)

If it wasn't for the way ford continually drove me away with their stupid marketing and putting the nicer mustangs on allocation I would have purchased another mustang by now. Yes, I know there are ways to skin the cat there, but I have no drive to play games to buy a product. A company like ford should be making it easier for me to part with my money not more difficult.

As to the comment in another post regarding the financial sense of buying a new car it only really applies to people who don't keep their cars for a very long time. The best way to buy cars is either to find good used ones or to buy new and keep it until the wheels fall off. The price of an M3 is in the zone where if I were to decide to shell that out I might as well go the distance and get a base 911.

 

[1wildGT]

2011 GT FTW!

 

[Speedghost]

Love the M3 and the 335i coupes, however, the fact that there is no dipstick to check your oil, and it is very costly to have a battery replaced (you can't do it yourself because they have to "introduce" the new battery to the car) makes me think these cars are fine as long as you don't want to keep them for too long, I'd say 3 or 4 years max. Read about the E92 3 series in Bimmer magazine and they say there will be some "cheap" 3 series cars for sale in a few years time, when the warranty expires. This made me rethink ever buying a BMW. They are gorgeous cars though.

 

[Yobi1Kanobi]

Why aren't we comparing the 2011 GT500 to the M3. Hell that would be a better price point comparison. And your still giving up 20k. I am a fan of both cars in the discussion and I think both have their merrits however. You cannot beat the new Ford product dollar for dollar. The only thing that will inspire your choice is your wallet and what you want people to think when you valet your car.

 

[unas2k5]

I would take a MUSTANG GT over a crappy bimmer any day...

 

[Panzer]

As to the comment in another post regarding the financial sense of buying a new car it only really applies to people who don't keep their cars for a very long time. The best way to buy cars is either to find good used ones or to buy new and keep it until the wheels fall off. The price of an M3 is in the zone where if I were to decide to shell that out I might as well go the distance and get a base 911.

Had my 330 not been such a complete disaster, I would have bought an M3 this time. When it became clear they build garbage, I considered a 997. Business has been off so I was hesitant to spend that much money (and people get bent when they see a Porsche in the parking lot). So I was looking around at anything and everything. I bought the 5.0 and I have no regrets. Better still, I no longer own the biggest POS on the road! Bye bye BMW - you'll never get my money again. Even if this Ford dies tomorrow.

My God I hate BMWs. Always liked them until I owned one. Most miserable automotive ownership experience of my life. Absolute garbage car.