weight transfer

9

90bronconate

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Apr 24, 2005

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Phoenix, AZ

Oct 24, 2005

#1

• Oct 24, 2005

• #1

so i've searched on the entire net for a long time and can't find what i'm looking for.

for drag racing
1. do you want soft springs or stiff springs in the back?
2. say you have coil overs. do you want to set the front as high as it can
go and the back as low as it can go?

 

94gts

Member

Jul 4, 2004

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Carmel, New York

Oct 24, 2005

#2

• Oct 24, 2005

• #2

drag you want soft

you prob want the rear set high so it will squat

 

9

90bronconate

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Apr 24, 2005

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Phoenix, AZ

Oct 25, 2005

#3

• Oct 25, 2005

• #3

ok the soft makes sense, but wouldn't you want the rear lower so it could squat even more?

 

nmcgrawj

Advanced Member

Sep 28, 2003

3,651

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Indianapolis, IN

Oct 25, 2005

#4

• Oct 25, 2005

• #4

90bronconate said:

ok the soft makes sense, but wouldn't you want the rear lower so it could squat even more?

Click to expand...

Here's a way to look at it....all those old school muscle cars have their rear end wayyy up in the air and the front slammed.


If the rear is low before you launch, then i would think it wouldnt have much room to travel or to squat. Thus making it higher so it can have more room....


This is just my thoughts...i by no means know for sure.

 

kck6894

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Mar 18, 2004

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Paradise

Oct 25, 2005

#5

• Oct 25, 2005

• #5

you want the back up and the front down. If the front is up and the rear is down you have lost your wight transfer. When you launch the car it can't react because the weight has no where to go. It has already been transfered. It's the same idea as getting a running start at something. When the front end is low and you launch your car the travel of the suspension gets a running start. The springs are going to help the front end snap up and transfer the weight to the rear adding traction.

 

9

90bronconate

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Apr 24, 2005

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Phoenix, AZ

Oct 25, 2005

#6

• Oct 25, 2005

• #6

but with a coil over setup, the amount the springs are compressed isn't affected by the ride height, so you still have the same amount of spring travel no matter the height right?

 

kck6894

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Mar 18, 2004

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Paradise

Oct 25, 2005

#7

• Oct 25, 2005

• #7

yes but the spring travel isn't what creats the weight transfer. It just helps the nose of the car rise easier when it's low.

Think about a teter-totter in a playground. If you wanted to put something on the end of it and shoot it accross the playground. Would it be better for the the end with the small child you want to shoot accross the playground to be all the way up or all the way down. You will get a much better effect if the weight has futher to travel.

 

9

90bronconate

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Apr 24, 2005

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Phoenix, AZ

Oct 25, 2005

#8

• Oct 25, 2005

• #8

ohhh. good analogy. i guess i wasn't really thinking about what "transfer" means lol.
so the squating helps the front come up right?

 

kck6894

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Mar 18, 2004

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Paradise

Oct 25, 2005

#9

• Oct 25, 2005

• #9

right. It's more like the front comming up makes it squat and drives the tires into the ground.

 

9

90bronconate

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Apr 24, 2005

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Phoenix, AZ

Oct 25, 2005

#10

• Oct 25, 2005

• #10

gotcha. so say i wanted to run a 170 rate spring in front. what should i run in the back? and if i got adjustable struts/shocks, would it be streetable? would it be almost as good as stock? i'm not concerned with it handling like a road race car, i just wouldn't want it to be much worse than stock.

 

kck6894

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Mar 18, 2004

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Paradise

Oct 25, 2005

#11

• Oct 25, 2005

• #11

I don't know on spring rates. I just run an eibach drag kit. I know some people don't like the idea of coil overs on a street car because the strutt towers were not built to handle the stress. I would recomend the 10 way strange shocks and strutts. I use them on my car and they are great. I believe they make a coil over adapeter for them also. They adjust really easy and will really help on the street without loosing performance at the track.

 

94Blue302GT

Member

Oct 20, 2003

704

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Chicago

Oct 25, 2005

#12

• Oct 25, 2005

• #12

woah woah woah!!!
It's not about raising the back and lowering the front or vice versa. You want little rear axle travel and the front to be able to lift more, so stiff in back and loose in back, which is why it worked to "raise" the back by increasing the spring pressure. I can't find the site at the moment, but it was a site of a shock and suspension maker that had done a lot of research. As soon as i find it, i'll let you know.

 

nmcgrawj

Advanced Member

Sep 28, 2003

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Indianapolis, IN

Oct 25, 2005

#13

• Oct 25, 2005

• #13

94Blue302GT said:

woah woah woah!!!
It's not about raising the back and lowering the front or vice versa. You want little rear axle travel and the front to be able to lift more, so stiff in back and loose in back, which is why it worked to "raise" the back by increasing the spring pressure. I can't find the site at the moment, but it was a site of a shock and suspension maker that had done a lot of research. As soon as i find it, i'll let you know.

Click to expand...

Did u mean stiff in back and loose upfront?

Im waiting to learn

 

kck6894

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Mar 18, 2004

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Paradise

Oct 26, 2005

#14

• Oct 26, 2005

• #14

94Blue302GT said:

woah woah woah!!!
It's not about raising the back and lowering the front or vice versa. You want little rear axle travel and the front to be able to lift more, so stiff in back and loose in back, which is why it worked to "raise" the back by increasing the spring pressure. I can't find the site at the moment, but it was a site of a shock and suspension maker that had done a lot of research. As soon as i find it, i'll let you know.

Click to expand...

Yes it is about front nose height. I think that is what his question was. I was simply trying to explain that you can't get weight transfer with the nose up because it's already transfered. I think we all know that it take much more than just keeping the front end low to get good weight transfer.

 

9

90bronconate

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Apr 24, 2005

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Phoenix, AZ

Oct 26, 2005

#15

• Oct 26, 2005

• #15

ok now i'm really confused. 94blue, if you could post that website i'd really appreciate it.

 

94Blue302GT

Member

Oct 20, 2003

704

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Chicago

Oct 26, 2005

#16

• Oct 26, 2005

• #16

Well, i'm still looking for the site, I know my buddy has it saved somewhere, but he hasn't responded yet. I had to dig quite a while.
A lot of people are concerned with the "squat", which really is NOT good for actual weight transfer, but IS good to reduce wheel hop. You want the nose of the car to go up, and the rear of the car to stay put. Also, a lot of people get this notion that "shocking" the tires is what gives you traction, this is incorrect. True, you do need a certain amount of it, but very little. It's more about weight transfer. With a leaf spring setup, you would put traction bars on with a length that would correspond to the center of gravity on the car. With a four link, you want the upper and lower to point to the center of gravity on the car. Weigh the front and the back of you car seperatly (a place by me has a rock scale i can drive on) and find the distance between the axles. Now, you do the same for side to side, and then you kinda have to theoretically do up and down, which is usually inline with your cam, or near your shifter.
Like i said, i have to find that website. They had a fox that had TONS more traction, just by lowering the upper 1.5" with NO other mods, and lost like half a second or something like that on their times. Believe me, the 4 link on a fox is almost reverse what it should be, good to eliminate wheel hop, but terrible for traction. I don't know if it's the same for the SN95's, but as soon as I can get my car back on the road with the turbo, it's my next step.

 

94Blue302GT

Member

Oct 20, 2003

704

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Chicago

Oct 26, 2005

#17

• Oct 26, 2005

• #17

Well, it's practically a copy of the site, with the truck example and EVERYTHING.
Get this: truck weighed 3620lbs and the weight distribution was 2600lbs front and 900lbs rear!
And does wheelies.
http://www.hardcore50.com/technical_articles/LaunchingPart1.htm
CHECK IT OUT and hopefully you'll understand.

 

94Blue302GT

Member

Oct 20, 2003

704

3

19

Chicago

Oct 26, 2005

#18

• Oct 26, 2005

• #18

OH, and so you can see from that site, it's not about the HEIGHT of ANYTHING, it's the stiffness of the front and rear springs, and the actual suspension layout.
Want traction? buy a drag spring kit, a battle box for the mounting of your adjustable uppers and solid lowers, and a K-member. Sure, you're spending over a grand or maybe even two, but when you hook up some slicks and lift that front end, you'll smile about your car like you never have before.